Michael's Dispatches

Top Secret Report: Jews in Palestine

94 Comments

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  • This commment is unpublished.
    Michael Yon · 7 years ago
    Human dysfunction always seems highly complicated, when in fact it's very simple. It's dysfunction. The more complex relationships are the ones that work.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    David Harreld · 7 years ago
    It is interesting to note that this is the same "Judah" (which has merged with "Edom") that killed Christ two millinea ago. "Israel" is a misnomer for this nation, as Israel was dispersed into Assyria before Christ. Israel passed through the Caucasus mountains and settled Europe. Michael, people, you will be amazed to find out who Israel truly is, and who has usurped the name of this still-great nation. We still have brother fighting brother in Palestine. If you have the stomach for truth, here is a good read: http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.org/BOOKS/birthright/index.cfm
  • This commment is unpublished.
    Bill Befort · 7 years ago
    As noted by another commenter, there's nothing in this document that has not been common knowledge for decades. To present it with the "Top Secret" label, as if to say "Aha! At last we know!", is to invite misinterpretation by readers with limited background in the subject matter.

    More to the point is the outcome of the events it foreshadows, displayed in this current map from Freedom House: http://www.freedomhouse.org/images/File/fiw/FIW2011_MENA_Map_1st draft.pdf
  • This commment is unpublished.
    Brooks Imperial · 7 years ago
    Islamism may boil down to a simple epistemological error of cause and effect, or your term--dysfunction, but it is the most pernicious, long-lived, and self-reinforcing error to arise in humanity's existence. And the subject paper shows that merely understanding it will not spare us its consequences. So what do you do? Thank God I'm not one who has to make that decision on a daily basis. Disparaging those with the duty to make those calls as hubristic is, in my view, not helpful. They're going to get some right and some wrong. We don't have the benefit of perfection that the Islamists claim to know.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    British Interests · 7 years ago
    This paper matches the opinions of Secretary of State George Marshall at the time. He was opposed to the 1948 UN partition plan. Truman eventually decided to vote in favor of partition (and recognition of Israel). I wonder if such papers determined Marshall's viewpoint, or vice versa.

    As for the counter-argument, here are excerpts from the first chapter of "Counsel to the President", the memoirs of Clark Clifford with Richard Holbrooke, published in 1991: http://www.jcpa.org/JCPA/Templates/ShowPage.asp?DBID=1&LNGID=1&TMID=111&FID=376&PID=0&IID=2203

    In regards to Truman's 1948 decision, Clifford writes the following: "What would have happened if President Truman had not acted as he did? ... [T]he U.S. might have faced a far more difficult decision within a year: either offer the Israelis massive American military support, or risk watching the Arabs drive the Israelis into the sea."
  • This commment is unpublished.
    Jake MacGregor · 7 years ago
    the hubris was/is this:

    NOT the individuals (though the label fits plenty I have met who author and instigate these)

    No, the hubris the presumption of knowing where to draw the lines ... that is the 'whiskey tango foxtrot' presumption that begs HUBRIS

    it falls to those of us that dine out of MRE boxes, live in Conex or Hesco FOB, and strive to keep the grit from destroying our weapons ... to those precious few fall the consequences

    it is us few that come home in a box, that give the last full measure, or worse, are TBI/PTSD/amputees

    someone in Foggy Bottom or Puzzle Palace with preconceived notions draws a line and our young men & women step out and pay the price
  • This commment is unpublished.
    David Harreld · 7 years ago
    A fascinating read: http://gods-kingdom-ministries.org/books/birthright/index.cfm

    This is brothers fighting brothers. Nothing at all like the mainstream christian "churches" have been preaching for the past hundred years or so. We have been sold a bill of goods. . .
  • This commment is unpublished.
    Brooks Imperial · 7 years ago
    Mr. MacGregor, with respect to the death and maiming that service people bear to carry out our country's political decisions, I'm sure you don't mean to say that grounds can never arise to justify taking those military risks and suffering those inevitable consequences. If, having been so engaged you have now become an isolationist, I can certainly understand your decision.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    ironargonaut · 7 years ago
    Christians in Israel are being chased out as we speak. Israel has ordered entire christian villages confiscated.
    Question are you a Nazi? Since that is the tiltle of your post. You sure act like one.
    I suggest you read up. Christians are being chased out by both sides. By the Jews because they are Arab and the Muslims because they think the christians collaberate with the Jews.
    "Race is not the issue-- both are Semitic and both claim the same patriarch by their tradition" so then you agree with my comments to Adam?
    If race is not he issue and Israel is "the only nation" in the region that does not call for death to all christians who won't submit. Please, explain of enlighten'd one, to one with such "abject ignorance" as myself, why there are still millions of christians alive in the ME.
    It is you who is insisting that all followers of a religion be put to death or change. Hate not lest you become what you hate.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    ironargonaut · 7 years ago
    I could easily call Judiasm the same thing for many of the same reasons. In the Bible did not the Jews put every man, woman, and innocent baby to death in a city that would not submit to them? Christian are being raped and murdered in the US every also, what is you point? I know not why Muhammed did anything. Nor dor I really care. I will not convert not even at the point of a sword. But, I do know that many things in the world have changed since the Bible and the Koran were written and unlike you I will not selective use quotes of these to demonize entire religions and peoples.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    Jake MacGregor · 7 years ago
    last post on this: Mr Brooks Imperial, have you ever received a folded flag? washed the blood of a beloved friend off your hands? slept in the mud 12,000 miles away on Christmas? Grow up with only the photo of a Father on a mantle with a few medals in a case? The miracle is many of us have AND still, knowing what we know, still step up. We know that some stuffed shirt is pulling stuff out of his a$$ and we will pay the price, and we still go.

    I'd pay to see you explain 'isolationism' to a Gunnery Sgt. Sir. And in fact, I'd pay your and my airfare to visit Mike in Afghanistan and watch you explain your views to Tribesman, Soldiers, Airmen and Marines. I need a good laugh as I live in constant and never ending pain with afore mentioned TBI & PTSD.

    Always Faithful (Semper Fidelis)

    Jake

    PS ... You may be right, maybe I am an isolationist now. Maybe. That is, however, based on experience not academics. I'd still answer the call.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    ironargonaut · 7 years ago
    [quote name="AS"]Also, in response to one of the previous posts claiming that Jewish-Arabs were idyllic before the creation of Israel, Wikipedia has an interesting entry about the "Farhud", the anti-Jewish pogrom that took place in Baghdad in June 1941 (during WWII): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farhud[/quote]
    I saw no post that claimed things were idyllic. Also, 1941 was after the British started to form Israel just wasn't called that.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    AS · 7 years ago
    Isolationism: pretending that we don't care about what happens outside our borders.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    Brooks Imperial · 7 years ago
    Listen Jake, the point is too valuable to leave with "Brooks is (fill in the blank)," though you are certainly free to fill in whatever blank you please. You admit that you would "answer the call" again. That's the point - there is a line that you have and will again step up to defend, and that line comes from a political process that none of us, as individuals, control. I greatly respect you for having that courage. You're right, I've never bet my life on that sort of thing and the best I can do is hope to understand the people who do, which is why I follow Mr. Yon's work. It seams the best we can do as humans, leaders, decision makers, and decision followers, is to react accordingly as reality becomes known to us. But there's no point in holding past decisions and decision makers accountable for things that were not known at the time of the decision. And all decisions at this level involve uncertainty and risk.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    Brooks Imperial · 7 years ago
    One more comment Jake, I don't think there is an academic case for isolationism. The several billion people in the world living in primitive conditions today need to participate with us to improve their conditions. Our isolation makes it a lot more difficult for them. They need to find ways to work with us in mutually beneficial arrangements to materially improve conditions in the third world. Isolation serves no one's long term interests. Imperial is my name, not my political philosophy. I'm a free trade guy - as Yon implied in a previous post - the ties that bind people together.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    Robert I. Eachus · 7 years ago
    As I see it, the only reason for reading this document is to see that the Arab-Israeli conflict is intractable, and has been since World War II.

    On the subject of hubris, that is an invalid accusation. At the end of WWII, the Americas were in fairly good shape. Canada was trying to fit some new pieces in the jigsaw puzzle, and some South and Central American states were dealing with the loss of traditional foreign markets.

    Europe was a mess, the 100,000 Jews discussed in this report were a small fraction of the displaced people the US (and British) military was trying to deal with while feeding and housing many of them on a temporary basis. Asia and the Pacific were not in much better shape, especially, of course, Japan.

    With millions of people clamoring to go home to homes that no longer existed--and in some cases, hadn't existed for a hundred years or more, what do you do?

    The best you can.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    PNR · 7 years ago
    It's not new, true. It's also not generally available - though it is, now.

    It's an intriguing read and gives just a glimpse of the absolute political chaos that followed in the wake of the Allied victory in 1945. Spector (In the Ruins of Empire) covers a lot of this in regards the Far East. This points out some of the same problems in the Near.

    Was it hubris? Not intentionally so, but culturally imbedded after 200 years of European colonial rule and the U.S. hesitantly trying to make sense of the political detritus left in our laps when it collapsed. We didn't want the mess, but we got it, and we tried to grant as much local autonomy as we could while containing the USSR and protecting our interests.

    That it's still a mess isn't surprising, though.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    AS · 7 years ago
    The British took control of Palestine after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire at the end of WWI. In other words, we are talking about approx. 30 years of British rule between 1917 and 1945, which is nowhere near 200 years.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    PNR · 7 years ago
    Read it again... "200 years of European colonial rule" The use of the word "European" instead of "British" was quite deliberate.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    AS · 7 years ago
    The Ottoman Caliphate is not what most people think of when they hear the words "European colonial rule". In fact, reestablishment of a Caliphate is one of the objectives of the Taliban and el Qaida.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    PNR · 7 years ago
    True, the Ottoman Caliphate was not European. It had also ceased to be a significant factor in Egypt and North Africa by the time of the Napoleonic wars - the French, and subsequent British, treatment of Egypt and the Nile basin; the presence of English colonial outposts all along the route to India, all date to the late 18th century. German and Italian involvement begins almost as soon as those states were unified in the 1870s, but Dutch attempts to control the trade routes to Indonesia go back to the 17th century.

    So, yes, "200 years of European colonial rule" is an accurate, if general, characterization of what collapsed after World War II.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    AS · 7 years ago
    Prior to WWI, there was no British or French presence in Israel/Palestine/Jordan/Syria/Iraq. Those territories only fell under European control during WWI. Their borders were drawn up in 1916 under the Sykes–Picot Agreement. And in fact, the Balfour declaration was issued during WWI, not beforehand. So to say that there was a 200 year Western European colonial presence in Israel/Palestine/Jordan/Syria/Iraq is factually incorrect and misleading. The Suez canal and Algeria are different stories.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    PNR · 7 years ago
    You are misunderstanding me. My comment was intended to be a broad, regional observation. It was not my intent to indicate that on date X, 1811, Europeans took over everything. The process was gradual and haphazard, beginning in the 1790s, reaching its apex in 1918, and collapsing in 1945.

    On the details and dates of British direct control of the territories you outline, I make no dispute, nor was I unaware of them. But I was making a general, broad observation (hence the reference to Spector's book) and, as a general, broad observation, I stand by it.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    Robert I. Eachus · 7 years ago
    There was a time when discussion of "nation building" was in vogue at the State Department, the CIA, and elsewhere. Now that it is obviously a very hard task the term is an orphan.

    But it is an important one. If you study history, and by that I don't mean memorize dates and winners of battles, but immerse yourself in documents written by the participants, there are three realities of nation building:

    1) It is hard.
    2) The loyalties of the dead don't matter, but the allegiance of the leaders must come to be to the new country.
    3) Accidents, blunders, mistakes, and lucky events matter a lot. Eisenhower said it well--"In preparing for battle, plans are useless, but planning is indispensable." If you are not ready to deal with events as they unfold, you will lose. You might not win otherwise, but at least you have a chance.

    At the moment, Iraq looks hopeful, but Afghanistan's chances look bleak, and Pakistan too close to call.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    Tom Knott · 7 years ago
    This is a UK document. As someone who was handling documents at this level not long after this one it has the layout and hallmarks of such a document. It was typed on an Imperial Typewriter.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    Ariella · 7 years ago
    This is definitely an American report (as can be seen by date order as well as context/language) and a very poor one at that.

    First, the very premise of the report is wrong. The British did NOT support Zionism, they were virulently anti-Zionist. They wanted to retain influence over the politically weak Arab world; Zionism was explicitly against their interests. Prior to the British occupation, many Arab leaders including King Feisel of Syria/Iraq supported Jewish national interests.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    Ariella · 7 years ago
    The report also mid-identifies the role of Mufti Amin al-Husayni of Jeruslam, who it describes simply as being ‘not in power’. In fact the Mufti, an ardent Nazi supporter, had tremendous influence between 1921 and 1948, when he fled. As the British wanted to try him as a collaborator, the report’s implication that he could return to power is completely misleading.

    And of course the report’s statement that the Jews could not withstand an Arab assault ‘in overwhelming numbers’ was proved otherwise when the nascent IDF repelled an Arab attack in which they were outnumbered six to one.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    Ariella · 7 years ago
    Michael, I greatly admire your work but this report is a fairly meaningless as well as inaccurate document barely worth the paper it’s printed on. The only reason I can think of for it being classified is its discussion of the Soviet Union with respect to the Arab-Israeli war. I’m sure that a reputable scholar of Arab/Israeli history would tell you the same (though it might be difficult to find one, the field is notoriously political and anti-Zionist).

    For accurate information about the topics covered in the report and the Arab-Israeli conflict in general, some good sources are www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org; Shmuel Katz, Battleground; Hillel Cohen, Army of Shadows; the IDF website; and the blogs elderofziyon.blogspot.com and israelmatzav.blogspot.com.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    Ariella · 7 years ago
    That's completely untrue. There were massacres of Jews in Hebron in 192(as well as earlier massacres) which completely destroyed the Jewish community, Iraq (1941), Libya (1945), Syria (1947), and Yemen (1947) - and this is just in the first 50 years of the 20th century! There were even larger massacres in the 18th century and before. Jews were forced into ghettos in Algeria, Tunesia, Egypt, Libya, and Morocco and subject to discriminatory laws almost everywhere. They were barred from professions, denied access to courts, had property seized by the government for any or no reason, etc. Conditions in many nations were miserable.

    For further information see virtualjewishlibrary.org (Myths and Facts), the blog Point of No Return (www.jewishrefugees.blogspot.com) or just google "jews massacre middle east". And next time, please have some idea of what you're talking about before you post.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    Ariella · 7 years ago
    Ironargonaut, Can you tell us the "historical reason why Arabs dislike Israel" (I think you mean "Jews", as modern Israel has only been around for 63 years and Arabs have been around for centuries), or why people who have "put blinders on as to this historical reason...will surely deride and ignore" it?

    It sounds like you have some ideas about why people do or perhaps should dislike Jews (sorry, I mean "Israelis"). What are those reasons, IA?
  • This commment is unpublished.
    Ariella · 7 years ago
    Either you're a complete liar or you're mentally ill, the form of your illness being anti-semitism. Tell us please the source of your fantasy that Israelis are confiscating' Christian villages(and no, the Electronic Intifada and Stormfront don't count).

    Falsely accusing Jews of bad acts is called "anti-semitism". And making up stories which falsely accuse others is called "lying".

    By the way, the people you call "Arab Jews" do not consider themselves such and are usually offended by the suggestion.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    Ariella · 7 years ago
    Another lie about "killer" Jews harming 'Palestinian' Arabs.

    I'll tell you something that isn't a lie, though. A few weeks ago two 'Palestinian' Arabs sneaked into a Jewish home, murdered two parents, stabbed a three and an eight-year-old to death, and decapitated a three-month old infant.

    They said they were members of the 'Palestinian resistance". The next time you hear the word 'resistance' against Israelis, know that it means slaughter.

    And it's ridiculous to claim that Islam prohibits killing Jews and Christians. The Koran and Hadiths state clearly that murdering Jews and Christian is a religious obligation. Think about the massacre of the Fogel family described above as well as the numerous massacres by Muslim (not just Arab)jihadists.

    How can you make such ridiculous lies with a straight face. Do you think, like Hitler, that if you lie often enough people will start to believe you?
  • This commment is unpublished.
    Violette · 7 years ago
    Inexorablement...since a very long time !!
    THIS IS daily News .
    I like also Ariella's comments .
  • This commment is unpublished.
    ironargonaut · 7 years ago
    The last desperate act of a failed arguement is to call the other person crazy and racist.
    I am the one who does not think we should kill people based on their religion and you call me mentally ill? Did you even notice I said BOTH sides are chasing out christians? What are the Electronic Intifada and Stormfornt?
  • This commment is unpublished.
    ironargonaut · 7 years ago
    You can find nothing good about another people?
    So if what I said is a lie how come the Jewish media report it?
    http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/idf-probing-if-officer-fired-at-already-wounded-gaza-girl-1.137057
    To follow your previous "logic", you lied about me and I am a christian, therefore your are anti-christian.
    You arguement is about resistance is flawed, because one could claim it was normal criminals. You should use the example of the terrorist who took a rubber raft from Lebanon to get around the border snuck into a town murdered mother and her babies. When he was returned in an exchange Hamas and other terroris orgs welcomed him as a hero. Resistances don't reward the murder of innocents. Oops, was I supposed to use a different example, so you could argue higher body count on one side vs. the other. Intentionally killing innocents is wrong. Using innocents for shields is wrong.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    AS · 7 years ago
    "Israel has ordered entire christian villages confiscated." Please provide evidence supporting this assertion.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    Bram Floria · 7 years ago
    Who'd've thought I would have to unsubscribe from Michael Yon's comment stream to avoid racist slurs and meaningless vitriol? How sad. I do appreciate the several thoughtful comments sprinkled throughout the waste.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    Michael Yon@gmail. · 7 years ago
    Bram -- you've got a strong point. It saddens me, too. But I can't unsubscribe.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    David Harreld · 7 years ago
    Sure would love to see folks finally decide to subscribe to what the God of scripture has to say about this region that His glory has departed over two thousand years ago. The old city of Jerusalem has become "Ichabod" just as Shiloh did before her. He promises that His Spirit is never again to dwell in a temple made of wood and stone.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    AS · 7 years ago
    So we can't even avoid "racist slurs and meaningless vitriol" on an obscure Michael Yon comment stream to an unimportant 60 year old position paper, yet some fools still think that "peace in the Middle East" is an easily obtainable goal.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    Ariella · 7 years ago
    You forgot to mention that the accused soldier, who was eventually found guilty of various crimes and imprisoned, was released when the two key witnesses in the case admitted that they had lied.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    ironargonaut · 7 years ago
    Looking at your title "Again you are wrong (lying)", so now quoting an Israel newsite is lying? Oh ya that's right I am "mentally ill" qouting a newstory must the equivalent to lying to sane people.
    [quote name="Ariella"]You forgot to mention that the accused soldier, who was eventually found guilty of various crimes and imprisoned, was released when the two key witnesses in the case admitted that they had lied.[/quote]
    What I said was "Recently a Israel soldier pumped a little girl full of bullets, because she dropped her books within site of his outpost while walking to school. No discipline was taken." Nothing you stated contradicts what I stated. What you said "Another lie about "killer" Jews harming 'Palestinian' Arabs." The source I quoted affirms I was not lying. Your knowledge of the incident seems to affirm you new I was not lying when you boldly stated I was. Notice nowhere did I use the words "killer" or Jew.
    I still do not believe all muslims are evil.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    Breck Jeffery · 7 years ago
    I remain forever impressed at the heat a document like this creates. Laying aside a discussion of those opinions, I note that the document is written in American English, i.e., American as opposed to British spellings, which suggests we are getting a Washington perspective rather than one from London.
    Regards from Bagram.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    Jacob Theodore · 7 years ago
    Please also note that the classification is Top Secret". I believe the Blokes say Most Secret, which also happens to be grammatically correct in the context of secrecy levels.

    I have handled a lot of classified material in my lifetime and the way we go about labeling it is not intuitive at all.

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