4-4 Cav waiting to board helicopters for an air assault.
12 October 2011
Afghanistan
Most of our troops in Afghanistan never see combat. The closest they get might be the occasional rocket attacks on bases. A relatively small number will be in so many fights that the war becomes a jumble. For those who see fighting daily, their mental time markers are often when they or their buddies were hurt or died, or when some other serious event occurred.
The troops in 4-4 Cav have seen a great deal of fighting. Their courage seems bottomless and for two-and-a-half months I was an eyewitness to their professionalism and courage.
This mission would be dangerous. The Female Engagement Team was left behind and the only female Soldier to come was a medic because, as she would tell me, “I’m the badass medic.”
We sat in the morning darkness behind the helicopters waiting for them to start. A few Soldiers were sleeping on the rocks, while others murmured about this or that. A bomb dog looked at me, then plopped her head on the stomach of her handler, leaving her nose pointing to the sky due to the bulk of the handler’s body armor. The air was still and cool at about 0230 when the helicopters cranked engines under the waning gibbous moon. Illumination was enough for an RPG shot on the landing which could take us all down in a ball of fire.
The helium-filled aerostat balloon tugged at its tether in the background, and light years farther in the background was Orion, pointing north. Remarkably, all of the fighting done by 4-4 Cav has occurred within just a few miles of this base.
CH-47 lifting off on a 4-4 Cav air assault. This image was made from a previous mission. All other images in this dispatch are from the mission described herein.
The CH-47 engines were roaring under the spinning rotors as crew members inspected the aircraft with flashlights looking for any signs of trouble. Thick, hot fumes washed over us as we boarded. Troops filled every seat and all the space on the floor. The helicopters lifted off and soon the wheels touched down on the landing zone in tilled fields. We rushed away from the back ramp and the helicopters flew off into morning darkness leaving us among marijuana fields and the Taliban. The mission into the deadly village of Leyadira had begun.
Through night vision, the Operations Sergeant Major Gregg Larson--a fine NCO--could be seen flipping open his Army compass and checking the azimuth.
On the landing zone.
Soldiers ahead of us searched for bombs using special gear such as metal detectors and other more secret stuff, but that only works to a point. And it only covers the area where a trooper has used the gear. I don’t trust it. The dogs are okay, but they get blown up, too. Often the first person to find a bomb is far back down the line and he finds it by getting killed. Keeping your distance from the person in front is crucial. Being too close to any other man doubles the chance of both getting hit.
The village of Leyadira was full of booby-traps waiting for us--trip wires, pressure plates, and who knows what else--but we didn’t know that yet. As best I can tell, Specialist Chazray Clark was at least number eighteen down the line. The village was vacant other than the enemy. The commander, Lieutenant Colonel Mike Katona, expected a big fight. The moon was so bright that it cast shadows. We were maybe two hundred meters into Leyadira when the first explosion happened.
BOOM!!! Off to front right there was a tremendous blast. Seconds later, debris began raining down and could be heard coming through the trees on the right. The ANA Soldier looked at me startled (image above) and started to run for cover, but there was none to be found. I just stood still, waiting to be hit because it was better to be still in a place now known to have bombs. We were not in small arms contact. He saw me stand still and he did the same.
4-4 Cav Soldier working
Specialist Chazray Clark had stepped on a bomb. Some Afghan Soldiers had strayed off the cleared path and Chazray was following them because they were in front of his section. Sergeant Edward Wooden had been close to Chazray but not wounded. Wooden was proving yet again to be solid under pressure. He had been wounded during a previous mission but now was good to go. Sergeant Carroll was so close to this explosion that he was stone deaf. Chazray was terribly wounded and had been thrown and landed on his face. The platoon was staggered by the blast yet kept their bearing. They were amazingly calm.
Minutes after the blast, Lieutenant Flores is working the situation by making a “9-line” communication.
In my location, the air was clear, but closer to the blast area the dust was thick. The night vision devices were useless for those in the immediate area of the blast. Sergeant Wooden called out the names of his men in the darkness, taking head count. Near the detonation, nobody could see each other.
A Soldier moves toward the scene of the blast while clearing his steps. No visible lights are being used.
Sergeant Wooden called, “Clark!” Chazray was facedown. One arm and both his legs were gone, and yet this man had the strength and presence to call out from the dust and darkness. Chazray answered, “I’m okay. ” Sergeant Wooden said Chazray’s voice sounded completely normal. Chazray was carrying a good deal of explosives when he stepped on the bomb, including det-cord and caps. Luckily, they didn’t detonate.
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Comments
Thank you of the comments, and please also thank your son.
Please do an hour of homework because making comments such ""How you raise the question, instead of focus on answering the question." (as you quoted) are simply untrue. Writing or quoting such sets back your credibility. An hour of homework would reveal that in fact I have written many pages with suggestions. Ten minutes of thought before writing also would likely reveal that to fix a problem, your first identify it in full.
This statement falls flat: "Have you not thought about the troops who are fighting for our freedom,(your freedom of speech!)and yet you pit them against each other."
Like Humpty Dumpty. That holier than though tripe lands with a thud and breaks open. My answer: Yes, I have had the chance to think about it during my almost five years on active duty, and about four years in real wars. Plenty of time. Please, the holier than thou stuff is a poop in church. Don't need it. Unwelcome. Sets the discussion back.
As for setting the troops against each other: I have not done this. Troops decide to fight each other every day for all manner of nonsense, and fight-worthy material. They are human. Nobody needs me to pit people against each other. I would also like to add that I did not start World War I, II, Korea, or the Vietnam wars, or the current war. I did not fire McChrystal. I did not cause Petraeus to resign. I had nothing to do with 9/11, Benghazi, the economic collapse, or any hurricanes that batter coastlines. Stuff happens.
It should be noted that many pilots and others are in agreement with these MEDEVAC dispatches. It should also be noted the Major General (ret.) Patrick Brady, famous Dustoff pilot and Medal of Honor recipient, has written an article about the broken system.
If I did not care about the people fighting, then writing these dispatches would have been a complete waste of my time. I value my time. You don't make money writing dispatches like this. You lose money, and invest great time. And you get holier than thou, uniformed messages and emails as part of the compensation, but then you get others saying THANK YOU. And those Thank You’s ARE important.
Again, thank you for the forthright comments, and I hope you will accept mine with the seriousness that I accepted yours.
Michael Yon
One comment, I'm not sure who through you the comment about Medical Service Corps being the issue.
"Medical Corps does not want to give up its helicopters because senior officers want their own helicopters to shuttle them from here to there."
This is a red herring. The Medical Corps don't own MEDEVAC A/C other than the Maj who is the company commander. He works for the same Combat Avation Brigade commander as the Apache crews. He/She has nothing else to do with the Medical Service Corps while deployed for recieving thier instructions.
Other than that hoped for correction in that statement, I agree. If you and yours are going to elevate it to the Sec Def, then at least have the basis of your argument correct.
Restated sometning like, "change Policy interptation X of the Hauge Accords to allow Army Aero-Med Evac A/C and their crews to be armed similure to and in accorance with the policy applied to the AF Pedros."
In the old days of OEF, we had on more than one occassion Army MEDEVACs conducted without Attack A/C support (for one we had five unarmed ARMY MEDEVAC 60's arrive without escort)and conducted at least one non-standard MEDEVAC onto A/C which were simply passing by when we needed them. So while I know things have changed, make sure you are throwing stones at the RIGHT point of failure.
The Army should not call themselves Combat MEDEVACs, you should be renamed "Lifeflight". Give me Air Force or Marine Birds any day. I have also seen Kiowas land to get guys before your guys will, so YOU and YOUR Community are to blame, not the AO Commanders, YOU.
I am sorry that you were not only injuried, but that you had what appears to be a rather bad experience in the field with regard to our combat medics.
As the wife of a US Army soldier-combat medic, I have to agree with Copter: 99% of them are top-notch and I would easily let them care for me in an emergent/urgent situation of any kind. Before you call my declaration biased, let me state that I am an expert-level adult ICU RN with 28 years of experience in some of the busiest hospitals in the southeastern and southwestern USA. I don't put my life into anyone's hands lightly 'cause quite honestly, I tend to doubt others can measure up to my standards.
I know seasoned ER and ICU nurses who, on any given day, can't get an IV started in a Stage 4 hypovolemic shock or cardiac arrest patient. I've had it happen to me. I am typically the one who is called by my colleagues both in the ICU and on the floors to start those extremely hard-stick patients who need an IV. I've worked on an IV team. I'm an IV expert, without a doubt.
Yet, everyone has bad days. You may have had a medic who never had to start an IV under crisis situations. That is not necessarily the fault of the medic if that soldier is in his or her first deployment and/or in his/her first firefight. Adrenaline surges can make the easiest of skills extremely difficult. I feel that if I were that particular medic, I probably would've had difficulty getting you an IV in the field if bullets were flying over my head - and I'm an expert in the skill of emergent intravenous access. If you were in a basic aid station, I might give that medic more of a frown, since those folks are used to treating guys right out of the field.
My professional experience aside...
I don't see an issue with the blending of combat medic and EMT-P protocols. Current protocol here in GA allows the EMT-P to start intraosseous access for fluid resuscitation and medication administration in the face of difficult/unabl e to obtain peripheral venous access. I'm not sure when your incident occurred, but I can tell you that my husband is skilled in the insertion and maintenance of an intraosseous needle in order to establish instant access for fluid resuscitation. That might not have been a skill taught to those who treated you when you were injured. I feel confident stating that had the combat medic treating you had that treatment modality available to him/her at the time of your injury, you would've had a needle into your sternum and fluids up before you could say "What..?" There are other access sites they are taught to use depending on the injuries present.
I feel that the issue Michael is pointing out is the fact that politics and inflexibility of highest- and high-level commanders will not change the current policy/rules. That is wrong, and that is killing our soldiers.
I addressed both of your posts below in a thread with a "Major". Look, bottom line up front, the 68W's were not being backed up by their MDs & PAs, saw if first hand since 04'-11'. It is NOT on the 68W's, it is on the Army System in the Army Medical Corps, they are slow to adapt and do not trust their folks. This is changing but it took 10 years.
As for the pilots, it is not on the pilots, the policies were instituted by the 05's and above and saw it first hand-DEALING WITH THEM FACE TO FACE, not second hand, not third hand, talking directly with them. IF you read what I had said, I always thought they would disobey the directives if it came down to it, I was proven wrong. I made assumptions and it had a cost. I have seen Kiowa pilots land before MEDEVACs birds, shouldn't be that way. Reforms are needed, saying that it was a rare instance is like living in Maine and saying snow happens 'rarely'.
As for EMT-P protocols, I disagree, very different modalities and limited scope of practice in comparison to what a good 68W should be allowed to do in the way of invasive procedures and fluids. Again, not on the guys, it is and always will be on the senior leadership.
Now that the war is ending they are looking to change their protocols, I will not hold my breath.
Take the cross off the helos, let them arm themselves and stop micro-managing them. Then train the medics in advanced procedures and come up with a broader scope of practice, better tools on the helos. If their medical sups are too worries then have the bloody MDs and PAs train them on the procedures, document it and mandate continued training-it is called STANDARDS. You don't want the risk? Resign your commission or at least get out of the way is what I say to the MDs and PAs who fight it.
As far as landing in a "Hot" LZ. I'm sure you realize the real version vs the "Hollywood" version of taking down a Helo is quite different. Helo's are coming back with holes in them in the LZ's that are "Ice" Easy target, easy kill. So, weighing the risk to adding a crew of 4 to the one injured on the ground? Sorry, there has to be some form of measured risk, and that is the AWT/SWT circling above with good "eyes" and guns to make this call. I would hope it wouldn't take 30 min. (Never close to that long this deployment), but I'm not in the mix so much this time around. Again, on the medic side, I stand by what I said earlier, I'd rather have one of our flight medics tend to me than others I would't name...but that's just my opinion of course.
Measured risk? Yes, there does need to be that but not taking any risk is just as bad as taking too much. 30 mins was the quickest you would get them there, not the exception and that was more often than not delayed even more due to escort or the release orders (90+ mins). The deployment where it was a minimum of 30 mins was 2011', so not sure what deployment you were on or where you were but that was the deal.
At the end of the day your community is supposed to be "Combat" MEDEVAC, they did not start to change your protocols until recently and only have a lot of grief from outside of your community.
On your medics, there training is also being revamped, they are great paramedics but they should be allowed to do more invasive procedures and trained to it. They should copy the PJ model in regard to training and standards and also how they kit out the helo and what kind of extractions they can do. PJs get both the EMT-P AND other advanced procedures/TCCC along the 18Delta lines. Big Army may not have the funding to mirror that training on the medical, extraction and equipment side but they should make that the goal or at least their model.
Medics with training/fundin g?..yup, big Army problem. Comparing SOF in this is like comparing Air Force and Army. $$$$$$$ Preach to the Choir on that one.
-Removal of the Red Cross: Anyone resign over this or go on record has obeying but protesting for the record I don't know about?
-Weapons on the helos: Any resignations come out I have not heard about or anyone gone on record over this being a poor choice?
-Training: Not about money, it is about your MDs and PAs training them to a standard and then keeping them at it. Getting advanced training is not hard to line up, all you have to do is get agreements (MOA/MOU) with hospitals for rotations or do it internal at DoD hospitals. It is about working and pushing the issue. They don't.
All those things add up to a cultural problem.
Look, I answered most of this discussion below with my thread to the Major.
Saying that it is rare that the MEDEVACs show up after 30 mins and pick up is not being honest.
Saying that there is not a serious internal problem with the leadership is not being honest in regard to policy.
Saying that training could not be improved and attempting to say it is about cost is not being honest.
Money is a problem in regard to equipment, you are right on that.
Money is a problem in regard to the helicopter pilots skill sets, you are right on that.
Money is not a problem with regard to increased training for the medics or for policy that pushes the decision making process down to the pilots and air crew.
It is not about comparing SOF when I see Marine Pilots and non-medic pilots doing pick ups without the "problems" we are talking about on here.
Look, I do not blame the Junior Officers, the Enlisted guys, etc...it is always a leadership problem when you see this sort of thing.
The medics on helos are usually Paramedic level guys but are treated like they are civilian paramedics as far as scope of practice, that is BS, if they can do those EMT-P skills they can do more advanced ones and that is again on their leadership. Not money, we have dealt with it. It is all about getting buy in.
At the end of the day, you can look at this as a hate fest, it is not that. It is a concern for BS policies and risk aversion in the leadership ranks that continues this poorly chosen path.
Correct, on pilots not allowed to make calls, in some cases, 06 in TOC trying to dictate where to fly by looking at the BFT! Depending on the Aviator, this may or may not effect the outcome of the mission.
Removal of Red Cross. Why would someone resign for something that has always been and some feel necessary? IF you started working at McDonnalds, would you then resign because you don't like the big "M"?
Protesting the Army reasoning, political IMO, is done all the time..like here. Also, if you are still army and have access to AKO, look at the OIL reports (observations, Insights, Lessons learned),
YOu will most likely find all of the questions that you have not heard about happening, where the "Big Army" is supposed to take heed. Obviously they don't...always.
I believe your concern is real, and many of the problems you state are real.
I didn't state that MEDEVACS have not shown up late, I said if so, there is an investigation. I didn't state that there isn't serious internal problems with leadership either. If you read carefully, I echo your sentiments, just trying to let you see from a different perspective. I am stating what I see and hear. I really have no reason to be dishonest.
Like many Americans, I thought our only mission in Afghanistan was to eliminate Osama Bin Laden. I'll admit, I'm kind of foggy on how we managed to get involved with overthrowing the Taliban, as the 9/11 attacks were al Qaeda, not Taliban. Our mission was completed upon the death of Bin Laden. Still, our troops are dying, maimed, and otherwise wounded from this ridiculous inability to determine why we continue to remain. Politically-ins pired? I'm in agreement with you there. Our Division has just sent more troops to A-stan to help with the "transition to advise and assist". A/A = BS, in my opinion. When the Afghan Army shoots our own troops who are trying their hardest to train the Afghanis, then it's well past time to come home. The first time one of those ***holes shot an American service member, we should've been gone. The first time Karzai said, "If you don't give me what I want, I'll just go talk to the Taliban", we should've been out of there.
Our troops are dying because no one in DC has the balls to bring them ALL home.
Mr. Brown - thank you so much for your service in what became a very unpopular war. As the wife of an Army combat medic, the daughter of a WWII Navy vet, the niece of a WWII Army vet, a Marine ForceRecon cousin, and cousin to multiple family on both sides of my family, I would like to say, "Welcome home and thank you!" While my Marine cousin was my hero as a child, those pilots who flew into battle to get our wounded out - as well as the medics on the ground - will forever be my heroes. You folks are simply amazing. Thank you.
While I completely understand your argument, I had a good deal of trouble removing the anger that flared when I first read your comment. Sadly, I feel that you could be right: What is the cost of equipment and training vs. one grunt on the ground? Should our senior commanders even briefly consider that question, they immediately resign in shame.
All the best
1) There simply is not enough Apaches. In my experience, every single available Apache gunship and its crew was tasked to something every single hour of the day. That is the nature of this war, the Apache is demanded far above the available supply. If you require a gunship from another tasking for this medevac (this being priority) you have to pull it from another mission, wait for it to fly back, refuel, and link up with the med bird. Significant time is lost here.
3) Often times a required sister ship (another, armed Blackhawk) isn't available for any number of reasons. I don't know what the difference is between Iraq and Afg. in this case, but aviation leadership is scared to the bone to send a medevac out for a secured POI pickup without a sister ship. The advantages to a sister ship's presence is obvious, but it was done so often in Iraq for urgent 9-lines and yet so rarely in Afghanistan.
My question- helicopter dustoff came into its own in Vietnam. Veterans, historians, or other knowledgeable people- how have things changed or stayed the same since then? I know that the aviation "fight" between the branches has been going on since the formation of the Air Force, but how has SOP evolved in the last 40 years? Should leadership look to the past for guidance?
To find this page, go to the Facebook search bar and type in medical.service .corps.chief. Please find my comment and sound off!
"Wall Medical Service Corps Chief - Everyone"
You have to click "everyone" to see the posts.
How many Apaches can you build for the price of one F-22 or F-35?
What's the objective of putting the troops in danger? They're not going to occupy the place. They're not going in to arrest the Talibans (at least I hope not). What are they doing there?
And Michael, thank you for your continued work. Stay safe.
Its time we stopped painting red crosses on our helicopters. Let them fire back in self defense. When was the last time we fought somebody who respected the Geneva Convention or gave a rats ass about a red cross. A couple of door guns can make all the difference. We really need to rethink the ROEs.
Politics that costs lives is a disgrace and those in charge need to take a good look at the good men who are dyeing needlessly. What a shame and what's worse it doesn't need to be this way.
My prayers are with the families who have to deal with the death of loved ones and my prayers are with every soldier still out in the field doing his duty. What brave men, we are so lucky because they represent the best of humanity!
If the senior medicos want a helicopter for their personal trips to HQ, then get them one but the Dust Offs aere more important than carryhing their well manicured asses from here to there. The only one who can correct this criminal stupidity is Petreaus's replacement. He can fix it with a direct order to all Army Dust Off units through the medical commander who's putting lives on the poker table for his convenience.
You deserve a medal for what you have done off your own back to report on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. I don't know of any other journalist telling these stories.
I have read many stories of patrols and IEDs and sometimes struggle to understand the strategy or tactics. There seems to be no downside to the local people in planting these bombs. If they refuse to plant them, they maybe get killed by the Taliban. If they plant them and US troops get killed, nothing much seems to happen to them.
Also, why go in on foot? Why not go in in daylight in armoured vehicles? Or why go in at all? I suspect that there are no 'hearts and minds' to really be won in villages like these.
Finally, it was me who previously raised questions about the number of troops on the Seal Team 6 helicopter which crashed. Here in this dispatch we see politics and bureaucracy costing lives by delaying the use of available helicopters. That was exactly what my previous comments were about.
You deserve a medal for what you have done off your own back to report on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. I don't know of any other journalist telling these stories.
I have read many stories of patrols and IEDs and sometimes struggle to understand the strategy or tactics. There seems to be no downside to the local people in planting these bombs. If they refuse to plant them, they maybe get killed by the Taliban. If they plant them and US troops get killed, nothing much seems to happen to them.
Also, why go in on foot? Why not go in in daylight in armoured vehicles? Or why go in at all? I suspect that there are no 'hearts and minds' to really be won in villages like these.
Finally, it was me who previously raised questions about the number of troops on the Seal Team 6 helicopter which crashed. Here in this dispatch we see politics and bureaucracy costing lives by delaying the use of available helicopters. That was exactly what my previous comments were about.
Bob
First let me express me sadness for the loss of your friend.
Now please allow me a few lines to share some information you may not be aware of and it may be causing some of your anger to be misguided.
I was in KAF in 2006 when ISAF took over as an Apache crewchief. We were ran ring route security, TICs, QRF, MEDEVAC and CSAR cover. Next year I am going back but this time as a DUSTOFF crewchief. Before NATO taking over we could have both a Blackhawk and a 64 in the air in less than 10 minutes from radio alert. We did it several times. Once NATO took over not only did operations change but the cadence changed. 1st up and QRF crews no longer sat waiting on the call in the CP but were given radio and told to go wait in the barracks. Obviously this added to reaction time. We also had to pretty much go though NATO to launch anything outside of the traffic pattern. Frustrating to say the least from our standpoint too.
continued..
What law or treaty obliges you to use red cross labeled vehicles to perform medevac?
Let me also add that my frustrations were first hand with NATO. Obviously in the last 5 years things may have changed but from talking to the crews coming back it seems like it has gotten worse if anything.
I'm sorry that it has take 4 posts to express all fo this.
First let me express me sadness for the loss of your friend.
Now please allow me a few lines to share some information you may not be aware of and it may be causing some of your anger to be misguided.
I was in KAF in 2006 when ISAF took over as an Apache crewchief. We were ran ring route security, TICs, QRF, MEDEVAC and CSAR cover. Next year I am going back but this time as a DUSTOFF crewchief. Before NATO taking over we could have both a Blackhawk and a 64 in the air in less than 10 minutes from radio alert. We did it several times. Once NATO took over not only did operations change but the cadence changed. 1st up and QRF crews no longer sat waiting on the call in the CP but were given radio and told to go wait in the barracks. Obviously this added to reaction time. We also had to pretty much go though NATO to launch anything outside of the traffic pattern. Frustrating to say the least from our standpoint too.
Continued
Continued...
Thank you for the stories and wonderful photos you have provided. It is amazing and infuriating that the issue with the army medevac helicopters exists and lives of our soldiers are being lost.
I have contacted my Senator, Bill Nelson from Florida, asking for his help regarding the issue and provided him the information in this stroy along with the link to the story and your website. I hope others do the same!
My experience is that the only way a policy change will occur - that removes those crosses on those army helicopter go away - will be if a congressional hearing is called at the request of Spec. Clark's congressman or senator. Then a day or two before the hearing, probably on a Friday afternoon as the Pentagon 'takes out the news trash', it announce a policy review and change and as quickly the hearing will be canceled.
I love my son more than life itself.
He came home safe from 2 tours by the Grace of G*d as I pray for your son and all who fight this good fight.
There is much shame and blood upon those that made these rules that allowed Chazray to die waiting for a ride.
You give the majority of people a little bit of power and its amazing the harm they do.
Shame on you in Army Command.
Thanks for the update, My prayers go out to his family and all those in harms way. I find some of your stuff very hard to read because it makes me full of rage. I joined the Army Reserve a few years back when I turned 39 and I was all set to leave and my recruiter was transferred to utah so he acted like a child and shredded all his work. Due to this I aged out as they say because my new recruiter would not guarantee me my MOS which was to be MP. I scored a 97 on the ASVAB which took alot of work after being out of school so long. This is not about me, Just wanted to share the feeling of helplessness of not being there to help in some way. Keep up the good work and stay safe. I know you had published a number for people who wished to volunteer their time and skills to their local VA. I live on Long Island about 35 miles from NYC and would be happy to do something.
J.
Warning: You may undergo a good bit more scrutiny, if you expect to embed with Army again. If I recall, you don't have any problem with that and that's okay with me. Keep up fighting for the truth and honesty. I was a Medic for six years and had a tour in Nam. I can say how much I would appreciate someone exposing this type of serious flaw in the system. If our Commanders can't get it together to form a TRUE fighting unit...then maybe it's time for some new leadership. What are they, in High School?
This story will be shared with all of my contacts just as soon as I can copy the hyperlink and Email the story.
Shame on all you selfish SOB's in the Army Command.
There is not one excuse that can be set forth.
Many thanks for your reports. Please let the soldiers of all branches know that we, the American people, truly appreciate their dedication, sacrifice and service. Yes, this is a very sad story to read and I am sure there are others that are like it. The fact that the men and women around you Continue The Mission even after events such as this is a testament to their status as real heroes. Thank you for bringing this story out so we, too, can understand the situation.
The new HH-60M does have these things along with some other new toys. my unit got to field the first 12 in the army
HOOAH!
For the U.S. Army to allow this Medevac situation to fester and cause U.S. KIAs for nothing more than internal turf wars calls for courts martial, lots of them and the higher the rank the better.
Thanx Mike for doing the reporting no one else is doing.
Iran is a very young country whose people when given the chance express nothing but love for the US and its people. I have had the pleasure to meet and know many Persians and they are a generous and kind people that always express great love for the US people. . The very few mullahs and Kuds and Revolutionary terrorists that slaughtered a generation while Obama vacationed this spring need to go and the Middle East and Double dealing Saudi's will be a much easier palce.
I am a Pedro pilot. I can tell you from first hand experience that this happens way more often than it should. It is important to not that not only do the Pedros carry .50s, we also have full medical capability on bot h aircraft. That means that we have more hands to treat the wounded. There are few things worst than bringing back a hero instead of a patient because of poor leadership/deci sion making at the higher levels.
I have nothing but respect for my Army helo brethren, and I firmly believe that both sides (Army Dustoff and the USAF Pedros) want nothing more than to do what is best for the patients.
P.S. There are ways that the PEDROS can be requested.
But there is something gravely ill in modern medicine in this Obama era. There are likely statistics coming from the major university medical schools which have pointed out that battlefield wounded who would otherwise die during the first post-injury hour without major medical intervention are also those with wildly expensive post-injury expenses. The Progressive medical professional has already decided the badly wounded have no right to an extended life because the cost doesn't justify it. The arrogance and ambition of these treacherous university vermin cannot be underestimated.
God Bless you all, and the bravery and the good you represent.
Our soldiers are treated by professional military medical units. Both US and Coalition doctors are stationed in KAF and else where in Afghanistan, they are very dedicated to there brothers in arms, I am sure they do save every life they can. The point of Mr. Yon story is not about doctors or universities, it is about commanders not being flexible in the face of adverse conditions. Our commanders need to adapt to situations such as this and damn the rules and get these guys some help.
IF the WILL and the authority were there, the most rapid battlefield extractions possible would have continued. Incredulously. No matter what is said, the policy of delay that killed this brave soldier does not change. Therefore, the conclusion is very clear and rather simple. A decision has been made.
Death saves money. When "defendable" delays result in death, money is saved. What these policies did to Chazray is but one metaphorical example of how promoters of Hegelian eugenics philosophy intend, by fiat of policy, law and resource constraint, to usurp the liberties and quality of life that the brave fallen Chazray and so many others have fought to defend.
I've have written and cited more but for the limit on post length.
God bless you, Michael. I'll be hitting the tip jar on the way out. We all should.
In the latter's lofty parlors is where you find the devoted Europhiles and the Progressive medical professionals. They are the ones who argue extensive aftercare is a waste of money that could be better been spent on research or other university projects to officially perfect "cost-appropria te medical delivery."
I wrote much more for each post, but length is delimited and all were edited back.
I've worked in such "lofty parlors" and I can assure you: RARE is the MD who refuses to quit on a patient even in the face of futility. If they decided that "extensive aftercare is a waste of money", as you insist, then there'd be no ICUs.
Sorry, the so-called Death Panels came from the Progressive/Lef tist side of the aisle AND from the ObamaCare monstrostity forced down our throats.
I sickens me to no end to see this petty, inter-service crap continues to take place at the expense of lives. It is not just one general that needs his ass handed to him, it is multiple generals over the last 10 years. The military is rife with this shit. I would say this needs a congressional hearing, but that bunch is broken too.
I hope there is a special place in Hell for the generals that are sacrificing lives at the name of their service's prestige.
Fly safe brothers and sisters....So Others May Live!
I am a PEDRO guy and have been for 13 yrs now. You hit the nail right on the head..... Politics, from the top down, is the bottleneck failure when dealing with CASEVAC/MEDEVAC missions iin Afghanistan. I'm sure you saw this first hand when you were with us in '09. USA MEDEVAC and USAF CSAR crews want nothing more than to get our wounded brothers/sister s off the battlefield and to proper medical care ASAP. Both services have the medical capabilities to deliver life-saving care enroute to the nearest medical facility. That's what every Rescue guy wants, doesn't matter from what service, as long as it gets done and lives are saved. I can only hope that this story gets elevated to the highest levels and someone has to answer to this..... As stated by the previous PEDRO pilot, this happens entirely WAY to often, especially when you have highly trained individuals chomping at the bit to help others who are just sitting on the ramp..... "That Others May Live"
Had my son and the other seriously wounded Marines had to have relied on US medavac in their situation, there's a good chance that they would not have survived the incident. This particular Brit chopper was a CH-46 with machine guns and the chopper was actively putting down fire during the medavac. God bless the Brits for being there!
http://medicalservicecorps.amedd.army.mil/
Michael Yon
Nice dodge on the rest of your errors, though.
You can go ahead and address his post now that you've been corrected.
To the current Army decision makers; Dust Off sole purpose is for other soldiers to live. Let the crews do their job.
What in your opinion would be the most effective way to bring attention to this issue, and to have the policies changed specifically related to removing the red cross from the Army Medevacs and arming them?
Thank you for your service.
Thanks for speaking your piece, and thanks for shaming the bureaucrat at fault.
Prosecution and jail would be too good for him.
RLTW and DOL,
Heywood Jablomi
http://www.stripes.com/cool-headed-medic-thrown-into-trial-by-fire-1.153269
There was an Apache with them that time (obviously needed). Problem arises when that apache is broken on the tarmac or tasked out. That particular mission could've resulted in a downed helo with the rescuee and the aircrew in significant danger to loss of life along and complete re-prioritizati on of all aerial platforms in RC-South. With or without weapons on that bird, that would have been a tough one. But without weapons, it's obvious that rescue couldn't have happened without additional loss of life.
- You can say you want to have dedicated apaches to these missions but they're aren't enough with literally dozens of TIC's asking (demanding) them throughout the day.
- You can send Pedro's every time and sap their availability for more significant rescues as they are designed
- OR you can put some damned 240's on the doors of that bird and give it what you've got considering all constraints.
I am disappointed in the tact you took when writing this piece. It could have been handled very differently and still have been on point.
I get where you're coming from, but if people take notice to issues such as this, then maybe other lives can be saved. As you can see from the comments, there are many veterans and current soldiers who have first hand knowledge of this problem and can contribute, but none of us can openly challenge the forces that be. Michael Yon has the medium, support, and knowledge to potentially change backward policy and at least in this case, it's in the name of preventing more stories like this.
Either way, you are noble in your support for the man's family.
I have no problems with him challenging the policy.
I don't see why he must again bring to light all the minute details of SPC Clark's injuries to make his point. The reader could have been referred back to the original article with a link. That is all.
Its been 10 years and talking around the basic facts is nothing but BS. We dont need more tact, we need more action and less worry about who we offend. If we simply fought the war in Afghanistan and stop trying to keep from making one group or the other mad we would have more success than this REPEAT of Vietnam.
Beware the bureaucrats and the cubicle warriors who will attempt to divert you, or who will claim that you do not know what you are talking about. This is a simple issue. I agree with the way that you have framed it. Those who do not, are usually those who are enslaved to a parochial outlook, defending some bullshit fiefdom.
Keep preaching truth to authority. Listen to your inner heart. And let me know if you need anything.
RLTW and DOL,
Heywood Jablomi
If in doubt, saddle up and walk through the same dust and witness what so many of us have seen repeatedly. A Red Cross equals a bullseye on more Infidels.
AJ sends
To continue its use with its associated rules that prevent the arming of aircraft so marked is not only anachronistic, but needlessly endangers our troops. It must be discontued.
find a church: http://www.apostolic-churches.com/
WTF?
While you don't get CSAR by adding mini-guns, changing tactics by adding a bit more firepower and training with it seems like a good idea to me.
Having been the subject of a MEDEVAC and through talking to others, I agree that it is a imperfect situation. However intimate public disclosure of such events will achieve nothing more than painting a vivid picture for the loved ones of Spec. Clark as to how he died.
This is not the type of thing that should being posted and shared for all to see! If the family wanted the world to know they would share it themselves. If anything they have the right to be informed before publication.
Second, and much more to the point, SPC Clark's family, comrades, and friends are hurting now and will continue to feel his loss for the remainder of their lives. There is nothing we can do to change that. As much as this may seem like pouring salt into the wound, coming forward with hard facts – dates, places, names – is the only way to put the senior decision makers who are responsible for this travesty into a position that they cannot wiggle out of. The amount of 'extra' emotional pain this family could be experiencing cannot possibly be worth another human life and another grieving family, much less the multitude that we should expect from the continued implementation of bad policies and TTPs.
If it were simply a matter of a grieving family, I would be 100% with you but unfortunately it's not. This is a matter of life and death.
Chazray's wife and mother have given full blessings. They want me to drive this home.
Suggestion: Maybe the Pedros and Medevacs should be allowed to fly together when necessary.
Spec. Chazray Clark is a hero who fulfilled his commitment to my country as far as any man is able. Thank you.
The Army seems to know this and does not care to fix it. I agree with your conclusions, something needs to be done and you are doing your part.
Thank you for sharing a soldiers story, one of courage and sacrifice.
well said!!
As a Marine who has recently returned from Afghanistan, I cannot state stronly enough the importance of this dispatch. We have nickled and dimed this war since day one and good Americans have died as a result. There are simply not enough boots on the ground and helicopters in the air to support the pace of current and/or future combat operations. I know that some are unhappy with the details that you provide in the dispatch and the perceived insensitivity to the good Sgt's family, but if anything positive can come from this needless death - it is that, just maybe, the next one can be avoided.
Semper Fidelis.
Anyone that reads this distpatch should forward it to their representatives and ask when this is going to be fixed....not if!
"at the risk of his career for pushing his authority to launch" - Why should they have to fear for their career? A good leader should recognize when someone has to appropriately break the rules and even to some degree encourage that.
[URL- removed by webmaster]
SPC Scott C Co 3/126 avn AA Witch Doctors
The brother of that Cpl found out I had copies of the photos and asked me to send them to him and tell him what happened, assuming I knew as I received the photos from the leader of the rescue.
Donation made, Congressman contacted.
That said, the need for change in the policies that govern hot LZ Medevac's is too obvious to be ignored, OR relegated to the 'HIGHER HQ will eventually fix it" bin.
I have no knowledge of combat related medicine, so can't speak to what chances there might have been had Spec Chazray been Medevac'd sooner. But knowing that his case was not the first, and will not be the last, there should be people screaming to get the "powers that be" to change whatever part of the ROE that prevent timely evacuation of wounded warriors from the battlefield.
Anything less is willful condemnation of troops to unnecessary consequences.
I have been an AMEDD officer for 13 years, I side with Mr Yon's view.
We have spent the last ten years fighting people who completely REJECT the very notion of the Geneva Convention, who routinely murder prisoners and protected persons, fire on vehicles and buildings with GC markings and otherwise methodically violate the Laws of War and the Geneva Conventions at every opportunity.
And we're worried about putting a couple of M240s on MEDEVAC ships because they have red crosses applied? Then let's remove those big ever-so-useful aiming points, mount the guns and start doing what needs to be done in a timely fashion.
Regards,
Thought of you after reading the following Blog by Isaac Cubillos.
What is the Highest Duty of a Reporter?
http://lanterloon.com/?p=839#.TpqxDMJjb7E.facebook
Followed you since 2004... for some reason the "debate" is just too much, and not sure if I agree with your assessment.
I could argue both sides of the coin, what I am having trouble with... is the approach.
Of course, time, distance and perspective are all factors.
Stay safe.
Nate
P.S. I know you don't consider yourself a reporter, but I would be very interested in the opinions of fellow MY readers.
Help Michael. Then help us help them. Donate or join a raffle please. paws4vets foundation helpkyria.com
PC is getting our BEST killed...
Carol-Christian Soldier
I feel for the line officers who can't speak out.
Maybe it is time to name and shame the generals who need army helos to do trips?
or sack them.
Golden Seconds: An Open Letter to Secretary Panetta and President Obama
http://www.michaelyon-online.com/golden-seconds.htm
Our battalian HQ spent the four days of the ground war lost in the desert. Our guys who were with them were highly pissed! In Desert Storm, medevac success depend mainly on the initiative of individal crews. We got support mainly from maneuver elements.
Point 1: Do we have any idea whether or not the Pedros were supporting their REAL mission which is downed aircrew recovery? The USAF PJs are not there for MEDEVAC or even CASEVAC. They are dedicated CSAR assets and there are very few of them.
Point 2: One might recall Mogadishu in which armed helicopters (160th SOAR) were shot down by "primitives". So arming helicopters does not solve the concern over loss of aircraft in a contested LZ. You can put a cannon on a MEDEVAC aircraft and if it gets into a tight hole and someone shoots at it from above it is dead.
Point 3: Pedros fly in weather because they have aircraft certified for weather, including radar, Army MEDEVAC aside from HH-60s are highly constrained by many conditions in which SOF aircraft can easily fly.
-From someone who did it.
Point 4: Reality is reality in politics. In the same manner in which the Army lost it's cargo aircraft to the USAF who won't use it, the culture of MEDEVAC makes it unique from assault and lift and you cannot treat them like DAPs and not expect them to be pulled for that use.
Point 5: Sometimes lethal injuries are not immediately lethal OR salvageable. Before we start speculating on what would have saved the kid's life we might want to consider that he experienced significant blast and extremity trauma and may have died no matter what care he got.
Putting a machine gun on a MEDEVAC does not solve this problem in any way.
Last point? You inserted by air, right? So where was the CASEVAC plan? This kid didn't die because of lack of armed MEDEVAC, he may have died because the armed helicopters that put you in didn't lager to pull out casualties when they happened. No MEDEVAC in the world is as fast as the same assault ship you just rode in on. He needed tourniquets (basic soldier/combat lifesaver level skill) and speed. I'd like to know who the mission approval authority was that approved an assault without identifying CASEVAC during the mission.
Also, as the gentleman stated below me, Pedros (USAF PJ's) are not a medevac unit, they are a dedicated special forces combat search and rescue asset. Their mission is such that it precludes them from standard medevacs.
"It is important to be absolutely clear--this is not about the Dustoff pilots and crews, who are incredibly courageous. They have earned enormous respect. They’ll fly into hell to get one of our wounded troopers. This is about politics getting in the way of saving lives."
If there was a .001% chance that your fellow battles (or any for that matter) could have been saved if a policy stated (i.e.) that if armed escort is to exceed 10 min other means to secure medivac patient(s) may be used. It's a shame that a person will never know if he could have really been saved, because we can't go back in time. We can try to change the lift off procedure of the medivacs so we don't have another instance of someone saying "we could have saved him if the medivac could have lifted off sooner."
Granted I can't and won't say anything about the accusations about using choppers for themselves. I simply have no idea on that aspect of the accusations.
Perhaps you gentlemen would care to offer some credentials? With your seemingly first hand knowledge of these Medevac issues, you must have had lots of combat experience.
Before this devolves, my "uncredentialed " opinion is that politics are politics and you do not have to be a combat veteran to understand that. Additionally, there are plenty of combat vets who may not be the sharpest knives in the drawer...not taking away from thier service, just stating a fact...eveyone has thier own opinion. Yon has interesting stories, but guess what--he is human too and has an opinion just like everyone else, and may not see the whole picture at the tactical level. The dickheads in charge are too worried about big important things like how many eyebrow waxed french-manicure d butt-pirates will get rump ranger tabbed and inserted into the Army. Devolution complete.
A Fellow Serviceman
The irresponsible piece of your otherwise outstanding work is that you have speculated on the cause of death of SPC Clark. You surmise that the 65 minutes caused his death. I agree that 65 minutes is far too long but it's wrong to jump to conclusions on the cause of death this early.
I served in Arghandab last year and experienced dozens of Medevacs. 25-30 minutes is a typical response time for either Pedro or Army assets from KAF in that area.
The injuries due to Soldiers from IEDs in these circumstances are extremely graphic and horrific. Some Soldiers survive their injuries and some die en route or later. I too have seen alert Soldiers be loaded onto a medevac only to learn later that they did not survive.
Before we jump to conclusions on the cause of death, a thorough investigation will be done and the family will get the details -- more than a supposition from Michael Yon.
good article, I am a MEDEVAC Pilot and have been with MEDEVAC for 15 years, i have 4 combat deployments, earned the Silver Star and German Medal of Honor all on one MEDEVAC Mission in Konduz on 2 April 2010. I will agree with alot of what you said but disagree on the Pedro piece. Having worked with the PEDRO's on all my tours i can tell you this, they take longer to launch (ex. soldier injured it took them 5 hours to get him back to KAF, due to it being a hoist mission and they had to dump fuel then clal in a c-130 for fuel to make it back), they can only carry one patient, possibly 2 depending on the altitude because of how heavy they are, etc.. etc.. MEDEVAC crews are ready to launch on every 9 line under 10 minutes , they have a 15 launch criteria, if they are delayed it is because of maintenance, or higher up trying to make a decision. I think you should embed yourself with a DUSTOFF crew to get first hand experience of what happens and how. DUSTOFF!
http://www.michaelyon-online.com/thoughts-from-a-dustoff-pilot.htm
The Army should not call themselves Combat MEDEVACs, you should be renamed "Lifeflight". Give me Air Force or Marine Birds any day. I have also seen Army Kiowas land to get guys before your guys will, so YOU and YOUR Community are to blame, not the AO Commanders, YOU.
The excuses I hear about not being able to get enough gunships to support are amazing to me!! Either push to arm your helos or go without gunships or rename yourselves and stop acting like you are "Combat" MEDEVACs, at least then we will be honest with ourselves.
You mention '04 in Iraq. Can't speak for other units at the time, but I assure you that during the initial Iraq 'conflict' in '03 as well as our follow up '04-'05 deployment, my unit flew mostly single ship MEDEVAC missions. In the latter portion of the '04-'05 deployment we began to catch flack from AV about single ship ops, so we would fly dual ship - MED/MED - no slicks. Looking back, I can tell you that single ship was just stupid - not for enemy threat on the PZ, but issues enroute. The day you have to put an aircraft down with no escort, is a bad day. That thought alone really made me reconsider my aversion to mandatory dual-ship missions.
Somewhere along the line, however, a lot of red tape got interjected by AV leadership. This simply wasn't part of the equation in the seperate MEDEVAC units before aviation transformation - and we flew with crosses and no guns. This really isn't an issue of crosses or guns, it's an issue of risk aversion and the ability to look at the MEDEVAC mission as what it is - a medical mission. It's not a general support aviation mission - hauling A&T. It requires some flexibility and acceptance of risk. In my opinion - IN MY OPINION - this has been the biggest difference since MEDEVAC has been an AV mission - things are looked at a bit too analytically when time and urgency just doesn't allow for it. There is the other side of the coin that the MEDEVAC mission and it's urgency creates an aversion to planning when time allows - I've seen both sides.
Having said all of this there are some senior leaders out there that do get it - my last brigade commander was one of them. We would launch pretty much no questions asked. Time was of the essence and he accepted the additional risk. He got it, and the system worked very well because he did.
This quote-" my last brigade commander was one of them. We would launch pretty much no questions asked. Time was of the essence and he accepted the additional risk. He got it, and the system worked very well because he did" That is great that you guys took off in time, they did for me as well, many others got to the area in time but they would not land unless the HLZ was cold and they had gunships to get any potential hazards. It does not do anyone any good if you take off and get to the HLZ in time if all you do is make circles and stand off, the people who need your help are on the ground. You are just finally training your medics to TCCC fully, great but the wars are almost over. A wee to little, a wee to late. There is loads of proof on this website alone, never mind my story. When I see a policy that allows the pilots to make the call to land, if they are open to allowing them to arm themselves and/or letting the pilots make the call if they need gunship support then I will think that the Army MEDEVAC system is worth a spit, until then I would prefer to work with anyone else I can. I am sure you are a good guy and I know a lot of the pilots hated the policies, fix it or you are part of the problem.
Lessons Learned in Developing a Military Medical Lessons Learned ... by Iris A CDR, NC, USN Boehnke and Frank K Jr, CAPT, MC, USN (RET Butler and Ann CAPT, MC, USN (RET Yos / Military Medicine
Just a quote from a very cursory search. You have so much misinformation in your post it's not even worth further discussion. You obviously have it figured out. Our medics are trained as EMT-Ps...really ...? This is the most laughable part of your post. You should research the latest changes to the flight medic program. Seriously man, if you're going to discredit so many people, you really need to get at least half of your facts in order. "You won't land in a dangerous area." Yeah, crazy, I'm still trying to figure out how birds came back with bullet holes... Total waste of time...
"At the start of the Global War on Terrorism in 2001, the Army was the only service that had incorporated Tactical Combat Casualty Care" This is just pure propaganda. TCCC was the result of the Navy, NSW in particular and it started in 1996,Butler was the lead. The USMC and Navy issued out actual blow out kits with the things that TCCC suggested prior to the start of OIF, the Army did not. If you saw guys that were 68Ws that were well trained on TQs, QC, Hespan/Hetastar ch, etc....in 2003' or prior, well, then you must have seen a Unicorn or at the very least a rare new animal. The Army was still not training it's people on volume expanders at the time and I did not see "Big Army" teaching the protocols until about 2005, so I am not sure what wazoo book you cite ha the balls to publish that but it is not accurate. Who knows, maybe a couple of GOs actually said they should implement TCCC protocols into 68Ws training but I did not see ANY of them familiar with the protocols before 05'. That would be like me saying, 'In 2005 I got the service to implement a new bandage and approve it and even though it did not get introduced out to everyone till a few years later I still say we had it in 2005' You are smoking something brother if you think they did adopt it in 2001'.
You are probably a good guy, care about your org but if you are not going to see that most of this stuff on here has been going on for a decade and that they are just now changing then you are not being honest with yourself. If it changed totally in the last year, hey, that is fantastic but not let's act like the Army is known for radical change unless the Germans or Japanese Empires are at our doors again, that was the last time I saw the Army quickly adapt. I am sure that individual flight crews were doing those things you talk about all the time but they were the exception, not the rule.
I do like your back handed comment though
" Always room for improvement everywhere across the force (recalling conversations with ODA teams in 07/08 bitching about recruitment and the quality of their new members). I wish you well." not attempting to imply anything are you? ;)
I don't expect Big Army to adapt or even adopt the things that SOF does as quickly, I also do not expect them to take 10 years to change their corporate culture in while two conflicts are going on.
Michael, I know how this BS works, I almost spit up my coffee when I saw the thing about the Army being the only branch to adopt TCCC in 2001'. The unfortunate part is that a lot of the 06's and above have still not lead men in combat so they are used to the pre-war mentality and still don't get it, all I can hope is that a lot of the good JOs and E7's and 8's continue to fight this and other idiocy as they rise up the ranks.
Jon, wish you well too, I don't blame the JOs and the Medics man, it is ALWAY the fault of the leadership in these cases. So instead of acting like this stuff is not accurate, screaming at the top of your lungs how these posts are not right, why not try to help continue to change things for the better? Your an 04 now, you have influence, use it.
Blessings on you Michael.
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