Our Weak Government Must Stop Apologizing for Criminal Behavior of Others
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27 February 2012
The recent Koran-burning in Afghanistan has again inspired lunacy and murder. And while the US civilian and military leadership burdened by their oleaginous apologies tumbles down a moral stairwell, Afghan security forces continue to murder American and Coalition troops. Insider violence persists at an increasing rate. Approximately 200 Coalition members have been killed or wounded in nearly fifty documented “green on blue” attacks.
Noticeably absent from the airwaves is a definitive apology from Afghan President Hamid Karzai, and a vow to fight this treachery committed by his troops. Instead, we are likely to hear Karzai whining about night raids that his own troops help conduct every night.
We should immediately cut off all aid to Afghanistan until we hear a public apology from Karzai, and a denouncement from Karzai of Coalition murders by Afghan troops. We should end all unnecessarily joint operations, training, and support of Afghan forces until we have public assurances from Karzai that the Afghan government strongly condemns the increasing murders of Coalition members. Armed Afghans should not be allowed onto US aircraft. Our people do missions every night with armed Afghans on our helicopters. It would be nothing to take down a CH-47 from the inside.
It is time that we redeploy our main battle force home and disentangle ourselves from AfPak.
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Michael
Comments
Semper Fi!!!
If we need to make any 'corrections" in their behavior we can do it from 30,000 ft up.
We need to let them know that the next time we have to go there, we will wipe these murderous animals off the face of the Earth.
Nuff already!
There are plenty of ways to convince the enemy of our badassery without being dicks.
As for Karzai, I agree 100%.
Apparently, you are ill-informed. The korans were burned, along with other related materials, because the detainees inscribed extremist propaganda in them to communicate with other detainees, who would do the same. The material became enemy propaganda. It is regrettable, though, that the ashes were not inspected to ensure the contents were fully incinerated.
OK, I got it: fly them out to the nearest carrier, put them all in the biggest container they can find, put them on the first available bow cat and launch them into the "flowing water" going past the bow! That should satisfy their requirements.
As for Karzai, make this his final warning. Any more garbage like this, and his support -- and the NATO military presence -- evaporates like morning mists. Sorry, but I've spent the past 10 years reading about the lives we've lost over there. I'm also no pacifist, but I know when it's time to reconsider our priorities. We accomplished what we went in there to do, as far as I can see, so it's time to bring the troops home.
//Steve//
Do you know that it is blasphemous for any writing to be made upon the pages of a Koran? Take a guess fool what Islam proscribes for any Koran that has been so defaced. Burning.
This whole fiasco has been a contrived charade to sucker self-righteous weaklings like you into forcing real men to bow to the terrorists.
You, sir, are a tool of our enemies.
We should have destroyed the Korans in an acceptable way, asking the clerics how to do that when they have been defaced, which is what writing in the Koran is considered.
By the way, consider what a freedom loving Afghan is. It's of course an Afghan who wants to see his country as a democratic state with the same human rights as in the Western world, a country where he can think what he wants, say what he wants, and openly be part of whatever religion he wants. A country where he can make money by honest work and build a comfortable life for him and his family. Now imagine what he feels when a foreign country decides to make the Talibans wish they were never born, and kick them out of the country. He couldn't be happier. Less than a year later, most of this country's troops disappear, leaving behind them a wrecked infrastructure, and no real functioning governemt, police, army, etc. The Talibans are allowed to come back and even take control of entire cities. Karzai loses a democratic election, but he said he won so he's not going anywhere. An dumbass burns a Koran in America. The foreign troops come back after almost a decade, and when they do he hear that some of them have urinated on dead bodies, and others have tried to burn the Koran along with their garbage.
In short, let's get our troops back asap and stop pumping money into the enemy's bank accounts.
Obama must accept ultimate responsibility after all its his handpicked commanders that are in charge over there.
also his cool head has a lot to do with the upcoming elections not doing the right thing. ( bank on that)
That said, Obama apology is just about pointless as Karzai's call for calm. The apology I want is from the 2-star at RC-E and some ones's a$$ on a platter. This is twice their a$$hat clownery has risen to epic levels in under a year (I'm referring to the PakMil crossborder incident). I'm not sure how much worse your leadership can be when there's an environment where people aren't stopping to say, " hey, I'm in an Islamic country, someone might take issue with me burning this stuff.". Do they throw out US flags in the trash and burn them because someone scribbled on it? What's the "I" stand for in GIRoA? Oh and let's take this to new levels of stupidity by doing it in front of locals. You have no idea how badly I wish stupidity induced pain upon just the stupid. And yes....I'm probably a litle harsh since I can't fly in today via commercial and had to last minute book a flight to the military side of Kabul's airport. But I bet I feel the same in 6 months.
This isn't COIN. It's NoWin. You guys are shedding blood for nothing.
41. George H. W. Bush
42. William J. Clinton
43. George W. Bush
44. Barack Obama
You figure it out.
The people running this war obviously never have read Sun Tzu. Otherwise we would have burned their damned poppy fields and left a long time ago.
Thanks for your comment.
You have no idea of which you speak. Are you nuts???
just stop
Not having tattoos and urinating on corpses of people who would kill you for shaving your face.
I disagree with you here. In the eyes of the Muslims, the Koran is, of itself, a Holy object. It is difficult for Western, non-Muslim minds to understand this, but it is an incredibly sensitive issue.
Swift and Bold
Mike
They were told it was a mistake/acciden t and they still went on a rampage i really think they like killing.
Drek, if it was a mistake it was incredibly stupid, and should have been preventable. I have had Cultural Awareness training from the British Army, and EVERY ONE OF US knows the importance of the Koran. Muslims view the actual physical item itself as an actual Holy object - don't look at this with Western eyes, its their country, their beliefs and we are their guests.
Swift and Bold
Mike
The only mistake we made was burning the Quran in a non-sacred manner. Burning is proper disposal, other than wrapping it in a pure cloth and burying it near a Mosque where the ground will not be walked on or disturbed. Please drop the "Western Eyes" B.S. I'm in the US Military, and last time I checked Europe, which includes England, is considered the West. We don't go around killing everyone for burning our flag, even though it is illegal. Unfortunately, in my opinion, the crusades haven't ended. Just modernized. All because of how people view and interpret their religions and the Bibles, Quran, and other literatures. There will always be someone who's veiw is to the extreme and will push the envelope in their favor. People must forget that there are Muslim terrorists that blow up mosques, attack the opposite sect, Sunni or Shia, of the same religion, and conduct attacks from their mosques (which is also againsts their religion), and then complain when we sotrm the mosque or return fire in acts of self-defense. This is sad. But true in most aspects.
A book came out this year titled THE MORO WAR by by James R. Arnold. It is about the wars in the very early 1900s against the Muslims of the south islands of Philippines. Tbe first US Army actions against the Morors went well under Pershing then the Moros got smart and engaged in ambush warfare. The US thought what they were doing was for their own good and the Moros were unappreciative. The following was from a British reporter:
"There is no doubt about the American being the most generous and kind-hearted fellow living, but his experience of Eastern natives is still somewhat crude. With the tenderest intentions in the world, he unfortunately bitterly offends folks who do not understand his ultra-democrati c ideas nor his rapid commercial notions." (A. Henry Savage Landor 1904)
So when you hear a politician talk like President Bush did that all people want freedom and personal liberty like we in the US do. It is not true. Many forget we dragged a bunch of Indian children from their tribes to PA. boarding schools to teach the how to be proper citizens. It was a disaster. And in the Muslim world there are two important items above all: Religion and National (or tribal, clan, etc) dignity that trumps individual rights.
Jack E. Hammond
Note> In the first military operation in the Moro wars the US Army hired Moro bears to trek in the jungle. At night when they made camp the Army cooks made supper for the bears. Beans and Salted HAM. And to the Moros to eat any part of pig is to eat the devil. All of them fled that night. And the operation was canceled.
THEY are wrong for treating a book as more valuable than a human life. Religious tolerance be damned, it is wrong, period.
We could just spray bacon fat from crop duster planes on all the opium crops the U.N. now distributes (for profit) because of our presence there.
So far, everything they are doing seems to be right on target with their plans. Why should they apologize for doing what they intended to from the beginning?
We should get out of Poppy Haven and bring our men home. It is becoming another Viet Nam.
Regardless, we need to get out now - this will not work out regardless of what we do. Between the porous Pakistan border, the corrupt Karzai government, and our own lying blind generals; we cannot succeed.
I am appalled that you are unable to remember the Taliban created a home and protected bin laden.
I am appalled that you can't recall that Obama called Afghanistan "the RIGHT war."
But then what can one expect from someone who uses name-calling as an argument.
I am appalled that I dignified you with a response. It won't happen again.
I remember 9/11. I remember the superb job performed by our SF and AF in pushing the Taliban out and cornering UBL in Tora Bora. I remember that dumbass denied our forces in Afghanistan the necessary resources to finish the job while he pursued a stupid and unnecessary war with Iraq. Afghanistan was the right war until Bush lost the initiative by diverting our military resources to Iraq. He, Rumsfeld, and Franks made Afghanistan into the hopeless war.
I am appalled that you don't understand what has happened in Afghanistan in the 10 years following our successful defeat of the Taliban. You see, they returned under Bush. Obama listened to his generals and increased the number of troops in Afghanistan, but it was too late.Your boys screwed the pooch appallingly.
In this country, I can call a politician whatever I want. I am appalled that you cannot remember how we got to the current situation in Afghanistan. Regardless, we need to get out now. We cannot change the past except in our dreams.
There is no need to remain in Afghanistan where we cannot succeed.
Your comments about the president are silly. The local leader of our troops, Marine General Allen was the first to apologize and he went too far. Try and stick to the facts.
Every life lost and every troop wounded is a waste of our blood - just like Vietnam. Thanks to Pakistan, the Taliban will eventually take over again and they are not terrorists, they're just despicable rulers. We cannot change the world.
It was EUCOM which turned a deaf ear to the Marine 0-6 in-charge of the men in that stupid, sigle location. It was the State Department and Naval Construction Office which sat on their hands allowing the new steel gates to fall behind schedule. Do you, as a military man think that the President of the united States ordered that the Marine guards keep their weapons unloaded? It was EUCOM.
My point (I stole from someone else) was that it was a tough and a good command decision to get the hell out and not get further bogged-down trying to find and punish the bastards that killed our Marines.
Later, a courageous, lone CIA agent, speaking fluent Arabic, went in to the Bekaa Valley and followed the agents who planned it, to an Iranian-support ed camp. No one was willing to act on his courageous work.
Intelligent people like an Air Force pilot should not imagine that the President of the United States control everything in his/her government. Size and "span of control" flat out make that impossible. If the elevator fell off your bird many hours into the mission, I don't think the Board would think of blaming you - unless you were doing those barrel rolls again!
michael...take me off the comments list please. Thank you.
I knew this was going to happen. I wrote a letter back around to Proceeding against a suggestion that Marines be used like village defense forces during the Vietnam War. I became hated immediately.
Michael I know you are upset. But read about the Great Sepoy Mutiny of 1857. Before it started some British officers and newspaper editors were saying the same. Stop pandering to their idol worshipping and tell the Sepoys to bite that cartridge or else get their backs flogged bloody. The British won in the end, but at a great price in blood on both sides. After 1857 the British made sure everyone -- enlisted and officers -- new the politically correct way to handle DEEM -- "The Religion." Lives depended on it. Please, Pretty Please, all of you read John Master's BUGLES AND TIGERS.
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Jack E. Hammond
That was an interesting book.
Michael
We need a mission that reflects our selfish interests. If there is none, then we should leave that hell hole to the Afghans.
I don't mean the folks who don't like us. I mean those with a current or near term ability to harm us here in CONUS.
Very well said.
Afghan soldiers and their officers are nothing more than Muslim's first and foremost and a threat to everyone of men and women in Afghanistan. You are correct that they do not seem to be held to the same level of scrutiny that the United States is or our soldiers on the ground.
I believe that we should pull out of Afghanistan, bring Karzai with us and charge him with the embezzlement of millions if not billions of US Dollars and then bomb the place back into oblifion and to continue to bomb them whenever it appears they have found a source of electricity, gasoline or any other 21st Century niceties.
They are all Muslim's first and tribesman second. They hold no allegance to a government as we know it. They believe that Israel should be wiped off the face of the earth and that any non-Muslim is an Infidel.
This is one Infidel that would like to send a message to the Arab world. You either eliminate your aggresion towards the United States or not only are you not getting any "Foreign Aide", but you can expect to be pushed back into the Middle Ages permanently.
I have lived for three years with a President who is not in any definition of the word, a leader. I want my country back. I want a leader who can give that to me. I want a leader who will stand up to our enemies. I want a leader, who instead of apologizing to foreign leaders for burning a damned book about their ridiculous religion, will demand an apology of a stooge like Karzei, for killing Americans over the accidental burning of a damned book about a ridiculous religion. You may not like Newt Gingrich personally. Newt's personal life may not align with yours. He has struggled with the realities of life just like the rest of us. That doesn't make him a bad leader, relative to the dangers we face in the world. He understands how Washington works. Actually, he understands how the world works. He knows who our enemies are, both foreign and domestic. His vision of the world around us is basically Reagan's view of the world around us.
I'm not looking here for the most perfect Politician that God ever made. I'm just looking for the Politician that can save us against a Communist Regime. Sorry to put it in those terms, but that is are facing. In appraising the Candidates we have to choose from, the only one who makes the muster, is Newt.
He may be an ugly duckling, but he is the best ugly duckling we have. Right now, we need a Tiger. A wimp won't do. Romney is a Wimp. Newt is a Tiger. I vote for the Tiger.
Shouting Communist Regime because you don't like the Dems is like claiming that you're subjected to a Holocaust because someone broke into your home and the police couldn't track him down. It's revolting.
Brandy, I didn't say it was done with malice, but it was done and discovered. OK, what do we do then? We can say sorry, or we can say screw you. The zealots will riot either way, so I think doing the right thing doesn't cost us anything, but may improve our standing with the millions of Muslims that live in more civilized parts of the world.
People claim the Koran is full of violence, well so is the Bible. I don’t believe Islam is the problem, it's the barbaric culture these people have lived in forever. Even the problems in Europe are caused by people carrying their violent culture there from the middle-east/eas t Asia.
I would like nothing better than have your husband and his buddies come home safely, and recieve the gratitude from this country they deserve.
The resulting heinous murder of the two senior military officers did focus on the hatred and treachery that seems so common in that country. It was unusual and refreshing to hear Karzai condemning the killing of his Western allies for a change, although it was not clear whether Karzai's words were meant just for Westerners or Afghans as well.
Former President George W. Bush and his father would have issued the same exact apology if they had been in this situation.
Jack E. Hammond
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But times have changed and the rules of engagement no longer are reasonable and border on lunacy (if not already there!).
WAR IS WAR and if our men & women cannot fight wars without the political correctness crap, then bring 'em home. We shore up our country, drill for our own oil in our own vast oil reserves.
We MUST vote this obamanation out of office this November.
Michael, I've read your reports and marveled at your photos but we'll find something else for you to do besides putting your own life on the line.
Time to come home. God bless America.
Come on, I was the astsysop for Compuserves Military Forum (at that time the only game in town) and I learned really fast the quote below is always true. And all you are doing by biting when who ever this is throws a hook in the water is feed an ego. Finally, Yon has a great forum here. But he should require a first and last name on messages. That would save a lot of these problems.
Jack E. Hammond
"Arguing with anonymous strangers on the Internet is a sucker's game because they almost always turn out to be -- or to be indistinguishab le from -- a self-righteous sixteen-year-ol ds possessing infinite amounts of free time."
--- Neil Stephenson in Cryptonomicon
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An old Arab proverb goes: "Better a thousand enemies outside the house than one inside."
But the US/NATO problem in Afghanistan today is that we have a 100 possible enemies inside the house for ever 1000 out side.
Jack E. Hammond
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Thank you for the message. Karzai is practically Taliban himself. If you watch him over the years, you'd understand. Maybe a quick Google of "Karzai threatens to join Taliban" can help on that. He actually threatened to join the Taliban at least twice. Taliban probably asked him to stay where he's at.
I've actually been very negative about Afghanistan since 2006. I wrote 12 dispatches in 2006 saying in clear terms we were losing. I got a lot of flack for that. In 2011, I was seeing some progress (there always has been progress but the curves are not going to intersect in time), and even got a few flashes of hope in 2011, but by end of 2011 I was negative again. I lost confidence in our leadership. Petraeus did well, but he needed to stay for years and it was time for him to go home. At the end of the day, these are of course all gut assessments. There is no way to deduce what's happening. Have we made progress? Absolutely. Is this going to turn out well? Highly unlikely. We also have increasing discipline problems. At least twice in the last three weeks I published that a massacre was coming. It just happened. 16 dead. Don't like to predict things like that, and certainly not to turn out correct, but it was a bit obvious that probability was increasing. (And still is.)
Michael
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