Of Concern
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Monday, 08 March 2010
Kandahar, Afghanistan
Yesterday, an American involved in the war effort handed me a document. It was an email from a Lieutenant Colonel in the 82nd Airborne Division in Afghanistan. His unit is in combat seven days a week. To be clear, I did not get the email from the officer and I have never met him.
The email is about the abysmal, unsafe conditions which some of our most dedicated troops are living in, at a remote base run by the Spanish military in Afghanistan. All deletions [xxx] are by me. I have the entire email. The serious and disturbing allegations are found in the second and third paragraphs.
Please note, that the failure to support permanent US troops at this Spanish base constitutes real negligence about their ultimate safety. And that comes on top of a degree of harassment that is shocking among allies.
The message begins:
Gentlemen,
I just finished spending a couple days with TF [xxx] at [xxx] and visiting all of our sites that we have troopers located at. Great progress continues to be made in the [xxx], but several items need some help ASAP:
[Para 1 deleted]
2) Qal E Naw: The Spanish are not interested in helping in anyway, and are trying to make us decide to leave based on their unacceptable treatment of Americans. Our refuelers [soldiers who refuel helicopters] that are living there have to run out, unroll the hoses, pull security, and roll everything back up. They have asked for gravel along the FLS as it is currently calf deep mud, but the Spanish refuse to make any improvements. They asked for a T barrier (just one) to put at a 45 degree angle outside the fence where the FARP [Forward Arming and Refueling Point; where helicopters land for ammo and gas] has to be set up so they can run for cover in case there is small arms fire, the Spanish say no and refuse to make any improvements. They asked for a small gate where their billets are located so they can access the FARP directly rather than going a half mile loop to get out the gate, but the Spanish said no and refuse to make any improvements. They [sic] guys are living hard (we understand that) but have to do laundry by hand as all of their stuff is stolen if they turn it into the laundry, they discussed this with the Spanish, but they refuse to many any improvements.
USFOR-A needs to energize someone to develop a viable, enduring plan for this FARP that isn’t reliant on the Spanish. This is a key hub for fuel (since we can’t get trucks to [xxx] or [xxx]) so let’s improve this location to better support those guys living out there on the edge by themselves. They refused to allow a Marine detachment that was dropped there to come into the wire or feed them overnight. Our refuelers had to fight the Spanish to bring them in and squeeze them into the two small tents that they have and give them MREs as they [sic] Spanish wouldn’t feed them. Is this how we allow our Coalition partners to treat Americans?
3) BmG: Who ever briefed that they have gravel there has never been there. We arrived during a TIC [fighting] and a MEDEVAC mission. The aircraft have to land/park in a field that has no gravel and then they sink into the ground. They have to be moved everyday to pull them back out of the mud. If we can’t get gravel, how about putting some AM2 matting, stakes and a couple of Red Horse guys on a CH-47 and fly them in to build a couple of pads just big enough to park an individual UH-60 on? We’ve been pushing the gravel issues since last fall and are no closer to a solution. Those guys are living in fighting positions. When it begins to warm up in the next month, that field will be untenable without gravel or AM2 matting. We don’t want to lose MEDEVAC capability there because we couldn’t put in two pads. We did a MEDEVAC [troop(s) wounded] and Hero [troop(s) killed] mission while I was there and the next day as well, let’s not forget that they are on the tip of the spear, we owe them more.
I would like to discuss these Saturday to see what the way ahead is going to be.
ATW!
On that note, the email closes.
So, our soldiers and Marines, living in rough conditions at the far tip of the spear, apparently are being treated with contempt, with all basic support denied, from laundry to the conditions of the field on which our troops do their thankless job. If this report is true, and I have no reason to doubt it, the Spanish are endangering the lives of our warriors by failing to provide basic safety.
To the extent that there is an international dimension to this potential problem, requiring a diplomatic solution, it deserves the immediate attention of our civilian leadership. Our able Secretary of Defense will likely wish to investigate, and bring it up with our Spanish allies for any corrective measures that might be in order. I will personally see that this gets to Secretary Gates. When Secretary Gates gets wind, we can rest easy that proper attention is forthcoming.
Sincerely,
Michael Yon
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Comments
That said, I was surprised when I read this. Yes, I haven't been as far "into the woods" as this report comes, but it's not indicative of the NATO efforts I've witnessed firsthand. I briefly jumped over to my Outlook, to see if Gen McChrystal was on there...and then spend the 10 minutes I'd take contemplating if I wanted to jump the chain and let him know...but his name wasn't there. I went back and finished reading the story, and saw Michael mention going to Gates. In my humble opinion, I'd suggest working the chain before going to the top. Give Gen McChrystal, or one of his 3-star Deputy's a chance to rectify this. It might be a simple miscommunicatio n, or a full blown (as implied) dereliction of duty.
IIRC, it was Spanish airspace ownership that cost a guy a leg several years ago.
youre doing someone's job for them Mike and I appreciate it immensly. This shouldve never been able to happen, let alone be allowed to continue. I really hat PC warfare and NATO cowards tagging along, dragging their feet just so they can say they went to work with dad one day. COME ON HIGHER!! WAKE THE F UP!!
Cover combat engineers installing requested (at least) improvements;
Install effectively a base within a base to support this Forward Helo Support Point;
Bump the number of personal to take into account minimal self securing and support needs;
Install minimal basic support for any detachment that stages through overnight.
Bill Spanish HQ for all the extras they're suppose to be suppling but that we have had to install ourselves.
Finally, although I understand that this is a very emotive item, can I please ask that phrases such as 'NATO cowards' are not used. That is an insult to the many such soldiers fighting bravely alongside the US.
Excuse me? We are the third largest contingent and one of the few providing actual combat effective soldiers
It has been said that the best thing to be is America's enemy and the worst her friend - Canada keeps learning that lesson. We get nailed as untrustworthy by the right, as an economic enemy by the left.
I think everyone recognizes and appreciates the contributions of the Canadian forces in Afghanistan, but let's not overdo it, okay? After all, you folks have decided to pack up and leave. Americans, as usual, will be left holding the bag.
Back on topic, the treatment of American personnel by the Spanish is reprehensible, and heads should roll!
PAX,
I've been to plenty of places in the field, and plenty of places in Kabul. Kabul isn't real. It's a bubble.
Outside the bubble, the behavior of the Italians becomes more than a slight nuisance in a doorway. The Spanish aren't just there for eye candy anymore - unlike KAIA, where the Spanish ladies are my primary reason for visiting.
In the field, above all else, you stop giving a crap whether people from other NATO countries are likeable or not. All you end up caring about is whether they're good at fighting. And when people can't or won't fight, the whole Model United Nations playgroup falls apart.
Don't base your opinion of mice on Disneyland.
PS: BTW, KAIA is Kabul. KAF is Kandahar. Don't end up in the wrong place - especially with the way the KAF authorities will screw with you as a civilian with their tightened BS restrictions.
Be safe.
http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/22080024.jpg
We either have disinformation being released by a man in the field or the Spanish troops are a sorry NATO partner.
I do believe the man in the field. Lying about something like this would not be in anybodies best interest.
If our people are being subjected to needless danger, this must stop asap. I dont want to hear about a commission to look into it.
I expect the US military to take care of its people even if the poliiticians try to impose themselves.
It's tough enough to engage a commited enemy, it's something else and a disgrace to have to deal with petty BS when lifes are at stake.
If it's true heads must roll.
Please let's not loose the focus here and forget how's the enemy!
There is animosity between the Americans and the Spanish but it is at the Field Grade level. IMHO.
If the Spanish are in tents, a "real" American gunny or top would have every single American helo do its descent to hover and land right smack dab over the Spanish tent city every single time and twice as often after midnight. Again, let the Spanish complain about us through their chain of command.
The only Canadians worthy of respect as "stand-up guys" are the ones in uniform. The rest are crybabies.
EUROPE SUCKS!!!! SPAIN BLOWS!!!!!
Prayers to all.
God Bless our Military, and NATO.
I'm apauled at the conditions the Americans are experiencing with regards to the Spanish. One would think that the very concept of brothers in arms would be enough to ensure that this would never happen. Makes me wonder if here is some current of resentment about their being there. I wonder if they blame the US for their being there. Truly sad if that is the case. After all, were they not victims of terrorism themselves? Even after they pulled out of Iraq did they not then foil another plot?
Mr. Yon, of course, now faces the possibility of a little "accident" while shadowing NATO troops in the future, since he has publicly embarrassed one of them. I'm going to send him another check and say a prayer for him-- keep safe, Mr. Yon.
We should have left them to the Fascists those many years ago.
We should have left them to the Fascist those many years ago.
To the Canadian person who wrote that Americans are not good to have as friends...read Michaels "Whispers" blog from 2/22/10. I think you underestimate our countries' relationship in both directions.
Semper Fi
To those who are slamming NATO: Just becasue the Spanish are running the outpost like sh*t deosnt mean you should slam the rest of NATO or other allies. SHOW SOME DAMN REPSECT! Give heat to the nations who are not helping out, but who are making things more difficult and dangerous instead of bashing all of NATO. Thank you to the U.S. Military and our allies fighting in A-Stan.
Whoever is responsible for this problem needs to fix it immediately!
It is shameful that the Army will speak Spanish and Spain is an ally that deserves your respect, our military are fighting and doing their duty.
As for the ignorance of Spain and his army can only be due to the low cultural level of its readers, but of course, would not surprise me that we are confusing with Mexico but considering that more than half do not know how to put on the map or Spain, or Afghanistan or anything else other than USA since settled issue.
To the Canadian, please. Relax. There are 42 nations there and I'm not about to cut and paste all of them. Also, you are incorrect. US is the #1 supplier of troops, #2 is Great Britain. And number 3? Germany. I'm not sure about the quip, "If there's a cloud in the sky, the German's don't fly," because the tarmac was full of C-150s with props churning both times I flew threw KAIA. They brought me all the way from Belgium into theater. If they never flew in clouds, they'd never fly in Europe (as I mentioned else where, between Belgium, France, Germany and Afghanistan, I have only seen a sunny day 5 or 6 days in the last 2.5 months...kinda rough for a Cali boy). Finally, just so you feel better, yes, the Canadians are working here very hard. OK, any Romanians pissed because I didn't give them a West Coast shout out?
geesh...
"SO-Gay-I can't-Fight" sissy's from Spain corrupting an already hard situation. Send the Pussys home.... They really do need an ASS WHUPPING....
Bustaheadshot
To the man who said to leave us to the Fascists: yes, you did it, you left us to them for 35 years. But anyway, today we are supporting you, dude.
I have no reason to doubt it, but this is just beyond my comprehension.
Back in the '80s and '90s, Spain had a fine Army. They do run things a bit sparse by our standards, but to hear that they would deny food and shelter to US Army and Marines is devastating. I wonder what Spain's Commanding General Staff would think, and I shudder to think what they would do if these issues are true. Could this just be a rouge Captain or Major? That might be the most likely explanation. Maybe their Logistics chain is so over-stretched that they have nothing to spare.
I would just ask that everyone withhold their judgment until the facts become clear. The Spanish Army I remember was a well-trained, professional, and competent force that I was proud to count among our allies. I hope that it has not fallen so far.....
I just wish we could get this whole mess done and won. I don't want any more of "my" boys or our allies getting killed or wounded to support a holding action with no clear objectives..... Are you listening up there in Brussels????
I know soldiers serving from three nations in Afghanistan, and I support any soldier of any nation who does his job. Absolutely, if the Spanish officer in charge isn't doing his job, then get rid of him as soon as possible and get someone else in who can. Soldiers have enough to deal with as it is, without allies putting them in danger too
USA and Great Britain can do that better (Vietnam, Bahia Cochinos, Irak, Panama, Corea, Libano) ever small countries, but Versus Germany you need 2 wars and the help from Russia.
Greetings
And we win.
Saludos
USA need the help of a lot of countries to conquer Afghanistan.
A very good ARMY
Amazing the things that get stuck in your head from College, although I have to admit that "Literary Idiots of the 19th Century" was a course that was designed to catch your attention beyond the test at the end of the semester. http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=905
I'm surprised the 82nd has allowed their troops to be treated in this manner. There's Brigade (or lower) commander somewhere in the 82nd that needs to take charge. And they need to keep in mind that none of the Euro Armies (Except the British) have anything close to the same standards as the American Army.
¡Todos pueden joderse!
Is diferent
I had an 'intercambio' in Sevilla at the time of the build up to the Iraq War. Her husband was a bank manager. She detested socialists. Her spiel on the Iraq War though was straight out of the mouth of any leftie. I once came round hers once after she'd been watching Muslims shaking their beards at TV cameras and being *very, *very **ANGRY**. She was really scared. She said in Spanish "I dont want this war. I dont know what they're going to do".
When Al Qaeda bombed Madrid's trains and killed 191 Spaniards, I'm sure she's one of the 'Conservatives' that switched her vote to Zapatero to appease Osama Bin Laden. José María Aznar's 'Partido Popular' were 7 points ahead in the polls at the time with 3 days to go, inspite of the fact 90% of the country opposed the war. They recognised Aznar as a man with integrity who they could trust and respect.
If José María Aznar was still President the Spanish Army would be in the thick of the fighting kicking terrorist ass. Only under a repellent character like Zapatero would Spanish military honour be sullied in this despicable manner.
A British Subject, Barcelona
I'm sorry but do you realise what a bizarre and sweeping statement that is?
It seems the IG was preparing for a tour of the ammo supply by some of Congress' finest and wanted to show a full and proper amount of bullets ready for the troops in the forward areas. Our army used a lot of AK's taken from dead enemy soldiers during the human wave attacks and that helped them survive. Once Eisenhower and Nixon took over, the situation got a lot better, since Nixon himself became the visiting VIP from then on.
It is too bad that Joe Biden can't climb into some fatigues like Nixon did and visit the point of the spear. It probably would not work since Obama is too busy and lacking in dedication to the troops that are dedicating their lives to save his butt. Our guys need all that we can muster until we get this war won and they can finally come home.
I am like most other soldiers, in that I hate war and love freedom, but freedom is not free. I hope these words and thoughts help make that happen. By the way, in 1955 when the German occupation ended we were still under attack by NAZI and Communist insurgents as they tried to undo the lost war that they started. The Communists (Progressives, Socialists, etc.) are still trying to undermine that outcome, even in the USA. They seem to love war. We still have to be the land of the free and the home of the brave, by being our enemy's worst nightmare. They need an attitude adjustment session real bad, you know what I mean? This includes anybody who helps our enemies by derelictions of duty.
Al Qaeda was a problem created by USA 30 years ago, i remember this all the people in this blog.
Irak and Afghanistan are the evidence of this politics of USA. Spain forces are in these places helping, we are not slaves to anyone.
Many USA people think that they are de center of the universe and in other countries we have to be grateful for this. No, you are mistaken.
USA is not the owner of the world. We have our opinion and in most cases is not the same about USA, fortunately.
In twenty years USA will overcome by China...
Bye "yankees"...
Resumiendo, que encima que vamos a echar una mano quieren una chacha.
José María Aznar hizo la justicia a la España de El Cid, la España tuya es de los checas y los falangistas. A fin de cuentas sois iguales.
As for KAIA, that's Kabul Internation Airport. It used to be better than KAF (Kandahar Air Field) but now you can't walk the streets so I don't see any advantage being there, and the air quality is better in KAF.
La España del Cid es un invento Hollywoodiano.
No se compadezca de nadie sino de si mismo.
No soy "Noah......"
I'm sorry but do you realise what a bizarre and sweeping statement that is?"
Bizarre, eh? Do regale us with a list of possible competitors to the modern American military.
As to "Spaniard," if Spain were to stand against the United States, it might deserve respect. The behaviour described by this article, though, is simply contemptible.
Well, this sounds to me like American soldiers are stationed in a Spanish base where they have to be mainainted by Spanish resources. Perhaps Spanish military authority is tired of supplying free resources for this people, who should be equiped by American personel.
Well, this sounds to me like American soldiers are stationed in a Spanish base where they have to be mainainted by Spanish resources. Perhaps Spanish military authority is tired of supplying free resources for this people, who should be equiped by American personel.
Rio
Semper Fi!
They are in the middle of relocation to a new, larger site and have been in the planning for this since the middle of last year. That may impact on some of the statements made in the email. Accomodation etc, has been an issue at the site both before and during the the relocation.
I read the email and, sincerely, cannot believe it. Someone has written you, someone whose name is not even appearing here. This person is telling a lot of Bravo Sierra about Spanish troops and we just have to believe it? Where are the names? You could just have invented all this story and should we have to believe it?
Well, this sounds to me like American soldiers are stationed in a Spanish base where they have to be mainainted by Spanish resources. Perhaps Spanish military authority is tired of supplying free resources for this people, who should be equiped by American personel.
Sorry Alex, try reading comprehension. Michael made it very clear that the entirety of the email wasn't posted, and I sincerely doubt he would throw the LC under the bus by putting his name on the blog. If you believe Mr. Yon invented this story, perhaps you ought to read his prior dispatches then politely remove yourself from the comments section out of shame. He's a respected columnist for many reasons and has only ever had the best interests of soldiers (of every nation) in mind.
The Spaniards and our other coalition partners are more than happy to take advantage of the many resources the American taxpayer paid for, all while sporting the same attitude you show here. No one has more invested more resources than America, justifiably, because we own this war. The medical resources alone cost millions of dollars, and save more than American and British lives. Yes, these soldiers should be taken care of by their own, and there's clearly been a failure on the US side of this issue. But, if we're partners in this conflict and the Spaniards are there, why would they not want to cooperate and offer BASIC resources.
I have several relatives fighting in Afghanistan, and most say the Spaniards and Italians live up to their many stereotypes. Particularly when it comes to Italian pilots. Cultural differences aside, theft by Spaniards is a pretty consistent complaint.
If even a small portion of this email is true, than the Spaniards owe those soldiers a very public apology.
Thanks Mike and god speed to all the men and women in harms way!!
>>
>>Bye "yankees"...
If you think China is a better choice than the USA, then good grief.
This is the same china that overran tibet, innumerable atrocities commited, threatens taiwan, parked tanks on their own people just 20 short years ago?
Spend some time in China if you really want to learn about arrogance & racism...
Que tonto...
So a Spanish soldier shows up on a stretcher, and we're gonna have to say, "No, we CANNOT make any improvements."
I'm a former US Navy officer who served on an exchange tour with the Spanish Navy in Rota during the early 90's. I must say that I'm very surprised that the sort of behavior which your article highlights has not been exposed before. Not that this is modus operandi for the Spanish Armed Forces. To the contrary, my experience during my exchange tour is that I found Spain's Officer's & NCO's to be highly professional and skilled - unfortunately the troops were barely marginal on the bests of days. The reason why the behavior that you've highlighted should not come as a surprise to the US forces is due to the fact that myself, along with other US exchange officers that came before me, all reported to our US superiors that the Spanish Armed Forces had become highly politicized. I repeatedly emphasized such grave situation during my de-brief in the Pentagon at the end of my exchange tour. All they had to do in DC was open up the archives and read our reports.
The reason for the behavior which you have brought to light is based upon reality, and not any allegations of anti-Spanish behavior to which you may find yourself accused, is that due to the ebb & tide of the political arena in Spanish politics, military postings and promotions have become entangled to the web weaved by parties & workers union. The Socialist Party and its attached union (UGT) are probably the worst promoters of this politicization. The Zapatero government came to power barely 3 days after the horrific bombings in Madrid, swept to victory by a knee-jerk reaction of uncontrollable fear-hysteria by the Spanish population. This government is solely concerned with maintaining its grip on power, handing out spoils, and ensuring that its operatives and supporters move into career positions of authority and control within all the ministries and agencies of the Spanish government. Thus in the event of a victory by the opposition, the Socialist Party can order its embedded supporters to quickly create obstacles to the policies of the new government in the hopes of ensuring its short tenure.
How does this affect Afghanistan? It is a well established joke in Spain that their troops in Afghanistan have more in common with social workers than a true fighting force. Without large number of volunteer recruits from Latin American nations (who are offered visas in exchange for enlistment) the Spanish Armed Forces, specially the Army, would find itself facing almost unsurmountable gaps in its manning requirements. The marginal skills demonstrated by the draftees that I served with has shrunk even more with the inclusion of this large body of barely illiterate immigrants. A cursory view to the Spanish casualty lists will demonstate the disproportionat e number of deaths among this group within the Spanish Armed Forces. Furthermore, the Socialist government has repeatedly placed in the senior leaderships of the different units officers who openly advocate support for the Socialist government, not the nation or the Crown. The most important directive given by the government to the deployed units is not to suffer casualties and to avoid combat at all costs. But the Socialist government has also instructed the officers in those units to keep the active NATO forces (US/UK/DK/NL & Canada, Australia/NZ) at arms length, to refrain from all joint operations with them, and to avoid as much possible any interaction with them unless absolutely essential.
The end result is exactly what you have reported and I commend you from bringing this grave behavior to the attention of the powers-to-be.
If it's true, I'm sure now that it's out it will be quickly dealt with. This will be something that the rest of the press gloms on to. Woo hoo. Of course then I'll be depressed at the writing skills of the Army officer corps.
I see dark times ahead for the West in the 21st century. When America becomes both more isolationist and slowly crumbles domestically it's going to create a huge power vaccum in the world. Our Western allies and many here on the left in America seem to be totally oblivious to these almost certain future challenges. They refuse to set aside enough enough funds for a prudent defence force and to top it off they constantly spit on their American Spartan-like body guards. And I say Spartan-like because we've sacrificed our own standard of living to a very real degree in order to fund THEIR national and regional security. They're a bit like the pampered Athenians who live it up like kings who look down on the Spartans as uncouth savages until they need their warrior talents when the Persians come to enslave them all.
As far as I'm concerned our Western allies have burned their bridges with us long ago. It's time we kick them out of the nest and force them to take care of themselves again for their own good. They've simply become too reliant and dependent upon us. I don't have a problem with helping out friends. I don't want to see Japan invaded by China or Eastern Europe invaded by Russia or Southern Europe invaded by Turkey. But since they can't even seem to manage a simple "thank you" let alone treat us with mutual respect and gratitude for everything we've done for them for the last 50+ years I find it hard to justify allowing them to continually leech off us.
You're presenting serious allegations as if they are fact, yet you yourself admit that the document was handed to you by a third party from someone you don't even know.
So heres whats wrong:
1. You have not verified anything here. You're just going with whatever the other guy said.
2. Nobody seems to give a toss about what the Spanish have to say. "If this report is true, and I have no reason to doubt it " and yu have no reason to verify it either? You're taking one side of the story and presenting it as truth. And you, Mr Yon, know full well that this is going to have legs of its own, and before long this story will be gospel.
It seems like Americans are pretty keen to slag off their allies, otherwise this document might have been withheld until it could be confirmed and the Spanish side of the story heard. But instead, serious, damaging allegations are made and everyone just buys into them unquestioningly . It appears as though Americans are keem to buy into the idea that their allies are useless, so checking of facts just becomes secondary. Sounds like a certain invasion of a certain middle eastern country.
So, I don't know. There might very well be some validity to this report. To the Spaniards defence (and yes, it's a weak one), from what I've been told we use "leverage" in some cases to get some nations to help. I'm more practical. If they don't want to be here, they should go home. There are many brave men and women, of all nations that I won't list so no one gets offended again if I omit a single one, who will step forward.
We can argue all day and night as far as who is responsible for what, but I don't see how it's useful.
**Side note: Good catch on my misuse of acronyms. For some reason in my mind, when I think KAIA, I think Kandahar, which is incorrect. I didn't catch that mistake when I proofed before hitting "Add Comment". Also, there isn't "an abundance of free time", as I've lost count of the people who have said, "I've been working 12-14 hours a day, every day for the last couple months, without a day off." In my opinion, quite a few people are putting in very long days, for months at a time, non-stop.
All is good. The matter is being handled. I posted more details on Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/MichaelYonFanPage
>This is the same china that overran tibet, innumerable atrocities commited, threatens taiwan, parked tanks on their own people just 20 short years ago?
>Spend some time in China if you really want to learn about arrogance & racism...
>Que tonto...
Hi, nick.
I don´t think that China is a better choice than the USA, i don´t like any dictatorship.
I only put an eye on the fact that USA isn´t yet the number 1 of the world but today USA politics are the same since II World War.
It´s a mistake. USA must to try alliances with other countries not only requirements (like this "problem" with Spain forces).
The problem is the point of view, USA has one, Europe other.
We(Spain) have thousand of soldiers in a countries that has been invaded by USA not united nations.
If USA don´t want our support we don´t need help USA.
The last thing... "Que tonto", i think this is an example of my opinion.
I we don´t have your point of view we are "tontos"...well , maybe you can look for where is Spain and the we can talk, sure you not have any idea that where is.
You can say what ever you wish about this situation (ie a lot the problem started with GWB asking for NATO support for just a security mission against "bandits and then pulling all the important support stuff out for Iraq, leaving NATO to hold just small firebases). But I think everyone had better read more about the Spanish military. At one time Spain sent one of its Spanish Legion units to Afghanistan, and their reputation resulted in them being left alone.
Finally, remember our country has a reputation unfortunately of being Rha-Rha then good by. Vietnam is the worst example. Then came Somalia. A lot of those nations that came to support us in Somalia were ready to kick some butt after the Ranger battle then suddenly the rug got pulled out.
Jack E. Hammond
NOTE> I think the US would be better to have other nations send forces to Afghanistan, who "really" want to and are not being forces with promises (a lot of former Eastern European nations have forces in Afghanistan only for quid pro quo on NATO and weapons upgrades) and some threats (ie why in the world would Mongolia have sent 45 guys to Iraq!!!).
With every good wish to those brave Yankees refuelling the 'choppers'.
These scumbags are actively hindering our war efforts. Additional riflemen need to be sent in there, and the Spani CO needs to be told to keep his dirtball halfassed troops away from the US area. Then the US forces there need to just walk over the Spani and do what needs to be done to operate effectively. And make it clear to them that if they need anything from us, screw off, they ain't getting it. Then just ignore them.
You are an ignorant moron. WWI and WWII were started by Europeans in Europe, but were both finished with major help from The United States of America. You seem to forget that. Spain was "neutral" in WWII, but gave major help to the nazis. Do NOT lecture me on what to call my country.
I once had a citizen of another country on one of the North or South American continents try that little game of yours. So, I asked him: Suppose you are on an airplane that is hijacked. The terrorists tell "all the Americans to come forward." You'd stand up and go forward, RIGHT?!
He kept quiet, and I suggest you do the same.
Sorry. My comment was directed at "Paco."
Spain is no ally. There are working both sides as they have always done in order to profit in any way they can. If the Taliban or any other Islamic group find out that Spain has actually helped the US in any functional way the Spanish lose the middle east money. What the US needs to do is drive the Spanish out of the fort, ignore the whimpering diplomats and put in a proper facility. It was proven long ago that we could win any war we fought if we really wanted to. My question is this, do we really want to?
Respect for this army of all time by courageous men invincible. The war is won with courage and not with technology.
Perhaps you were smelling bad. That's why you never invited to dine with them. Who lost in Vietnam and who loses in Afghanistan and therefore help you run crying to lose the Spanish? American LOSER and WEEPING.
You really lit a firestorm with this one! I am SO glad it is being taken care of. I enjoyed the comments from John (Capt in ANG Civilian in Aghanistan) and from the 82nd Airborne Paratrooper. Too many other commentors got off topic and downright nasty.
The problem is being addressed and that is ALL I care about. God Bless the troops!
All the troops!
Last I heard the Spanish have less than 1500 soldiers in country .... I cant imagine that they are effecting our operations that drasticaly. My hopes are that they are fighting the enemy and upholding the proud tradition of the Ejército de Tierra.....
Thanks Mike ,.... and by the way the " Valnetines Day" photo made me tear up .... it was moving and unforgettable.
www.blogs.chron.com/lettersfrombabylon
Our best generals, commanders, etc were sended to their retirement when Zapatero arrived and he puts officials close to his political ideas, easygoing, people who tell mr.president only the things he wants to listen to and now the army is very politiced and to the left part.
You know?. Today my goverment say to us that Afganistán is not a war and we are there is a peace mission, like Red Cross, can you believe this?.
Is like when the crisis arrived to my country?, Zapatero said we are in crisis two years after!!!. This man doesn't live in a real world, and sadly is our president since 11th march 2004.
Another thing, Al Queda didn't put the bombs in the trains in Madrid, it's false. It was ETA with some help of maybe secret services who did want to influence in the votes 3 days after and they won. Somebody didn't want a strong country, good ally of USA and they guessed.
The last thing, Spain doesn't hate Americans, this is not true, maybe some of them yes, like not all Americans hate Germans, for example, it is not good to generalize.
Un saludo from Spain.
I meant that they are doing like our Defense Minister expressed long time ago to some journalists, he said : "I'd rather be killed than kill", and this is the most stupid sentence that i've never heard, spoken by a demagogue who knows that he never won't be in the front line-the front row, another people will die for him and because of his misguided politics. All part of the same wrong decisions. Be fine, be quiet, don't move, another people will do the job for you.
It's in Spanish, but run it through the Google translator and it will be readable.
The Spanish command is "aware" of the problem, the article says.
Forgive my Englishman's level, it is not my habitual language.
I have been leyendos the commentaries here written.
The attitude of the Spanish troops with an ally they are deplorable and must be solved.
The fault(sin) is of the control, not of the soldiers.
But I want remember(remind ) that in Iraq not tape-worm that to go nothing to do, not habia terrorism, if habia a dictadura was thank you the support of USA.
And if in Afghanistan, there are terrorists, also it is a responsibility of The United States.
This way that now they know wherefrom the problems come.
Do not stop reading books.
Be the soln not just complain about it {although, this is the media job}.
can't believe how our soldiers are being left to fend for themselves!!!!!!!!!
Cpt Cain
Nevertheless, if you like history, you could learn the troubles the Roman Republic had because it could not adequately manage its Italic Allies; They were lucky to have Caius Marius -himself an Italic- to quell the rebellion that ensued due to Roman mismanagement of the Italic Troops.
I remember everyone in this forum that the casualty roll for the Spaniards is more than 80.
I would therefore ask that before you criticize, insult and threaten become better informed on the subject. (We had the May 2, 1808 did not you please take yours too)
Excuse me for my bad English
In the angry 200 years of ridiculous existence of the USA, don't exist the day, that can compare with the worst Spanish day... what's USA without technology? A group of bastards, who fight for money... USA don't have army, have soldiers...
You want that Spaniard fight and dead for you? And what do USA for the Spaniards? Cowards.
"I read that the Spanish soldier was the best in History. Now, watching them figthing in the Eastern front (against communism) I comprove it".
USA, go home.
USA is the country whot thinks that Spain is in SouthAmerica, that Europe is a country... yes!! A great country. lol
With a great History... be careful, 200 years... wow... fantastic!!
Go home bastards.
PS: who sais: "Shoot the bastard". I want to see that. Behind the PC it's so easy... "home of the braves". lol
I am Spanish too, and well, what to say about this.
Here in Spain nor the army, neither the governmente have said nothing, but here we know the things are not going well in our army.
Our soldiers has old vehicles, they lack of basic equipment for army exercises so no imagine in a war like against the talibans. And as our goverment says "the world is happy", well, there is no money for our soldiers, there is only money for our politicians trips, meals, cars, ...
Our soldiers are dying, as well US soldiers, and from other places and I believe these problems beteween our armies should be fixed in the political way, but the soldiers from both countries have not to forgot who are the real enemy.
Is sad there is a stupid goverment here in Spain, if only you know a bit more about our internal affaired probably US soldiers would give even their pants to our soldiers.
Well, is the tradition in our history, good soldiers and army, good people, awfull politicians.
Please, don´t blame all of us. A lot of people here in Spain don´t forget how Zapatero ran away from Irak like a coward. That issue is a black point in our army list. Hope the things change in thee future.
A greeting and good luck in the war from Spain.
The 9th Annual U.S. Army International Sniper Competition in Fort Benning,Georgia .
31 Teams..Winner Spanish Team!!!!
It's in Spanish, but run it through the Google translator and it will be readable.
http://www.diarioinformacion.com/alicante/2009/10/27/mejores-swat/944914.html?pIdFoto=3894152
The 9th Annual U.S. Army International Sniper Competition in Fort Benning, Georgia.
31 Teams...The Winner Spanish Team!!
It's in Spanish, but run it through the Google translator and it will be readable.
You show the typical communist/socia list mentality so common here in Spain: "I am LAZY (yes, uppercase), Government give me EVERYTHING"
The US have given you the nuclear energy you waste with the PC they have invented, the light bulbs you see with, the phone you use to call, the TV you watch, the cars you move with, the airplanes you fly on, etc. etc. etc. etc. I am sure you would mindlessly join Hamas just to give pleasure to your brainless AntiAmerican feelings, your poor knowledge of their language (2nd language in our schools) shows how instructed you are to make allegations against anybody outside your little town.
You are a shame to us all Spanish people.
eres tonto del culo
http://webalia.com/imgs/zapatero.jpg
You want to know who's responsible for all this? Easy, ZAPATERO, keep that name in mind, as he will go in history for being the WORST president in a democratic (said who?) country.
Tal vez al coronel Usa, se le olvidó pedir las cosas, por su nombre, con un por favor.
El soldado español es desde epocas preromanas de la siguiente manera(entre muchas otras):
una tenacidad en la defensa hasta límites insospechados, tozudez hasta la desesperación, desprecio absoluto por la vida propia (y en ocasiones por la ajena), crueldad, generosidad, imperturbabilid ad en las derrotas (de manera general, no nada más terminar), y sobre todo austeridad.
Si en el frente os encontráis a un soldado mal afeitado, sucio, con las botas rotas y el uniforme desabrochado, cuadráos ante él, es un héroe, es un español.
General de Artillería Jürgens.
Son indisciplinados , pero no he visto soldados más valientes. Aún no han cedido un palmo de terreno. Yo sé que los nuestros están tranquilos cuando tienen a los españoles de vecinos de sector.
Opinión de Adolf Hitler recogida por Von Ribbentrop en sus memorias.
Ni hablar. Los españoles son el único pueblo mediterráneo verdaderamente valiente e immediatamente organizarían guerillas en nuestra retaguardia. No se puede entrar en España sin permiso de los españoles.
Frase pronunciada por Hitler, luego de invadir Francia, cuando algunos generales le propusieron también invadir España.
"Considerados como tropa, los españoles son una banda de vagabundos.
Para ellos el fusil es un instrumento que no debe limpiarse bajo ningun pretexto.
Entre los españoles, los centinelas no existen más que en teoría.
No ocupaban sus puestos, pero si los ocupaban es durmiendo.
Cuando llegan los rusos, son los indígenas los que tienen que despertarles.
Pero los españoles no han cedido nunca una pulgada de terreno.
No tengo idea de seres más impávidos. Apenas se protegen.
Desafían a la muerte.
Lo que sé es que los nuestros están siempre contentos de tener españoles como vecinos de sector.
Si se leen los escritos de Goeben sobre los españoles, se advierte que no han cambiado desde hace cien años.
Extraordinariam ente valientes y duros para las privaciones, pero ferozmente indisciplinados "
Adolf Hitler.
"Los argentinos tienen dos sangres, la española y la italiana, si sacan su sangre italiana ganaremos la guerra, pero si sacan su sangre española podemos perder la guerra. - Ministro de Defensa Británico a Margaret Thacher, duante la Guerra de las Malvinas.
Saludos
Pero la verdad, es que el estado actual de las FFAA españolas es penoso, mensajes arriba un declarado militar norteamericano decía que había un gran problema con la politización de las FFAA, y es cierto. El mecanismo de control social es tal y como ha comentado. Como es cierto que la dirección gubernamental de éstas, sobrepasa lo ridículo en el mejor de los casos. Y como es cierto, que el pueblo español, parece perdido en un mundo irreal; probablemente por comodidad, y por falta de cultura política, sustituída por mucho sectarismo.
Seamos serios: En la propia España hay mucha gente que está harta de la mala utilización de las FFAA en Afganistán, y que sienten vergüenza por ello, que no se creen la memez de la "misión de paz" del presidente Zapatero. Que saben que es una guerra en la que deberíamos estar en los puestos de más esfuerzo y sacrificio, como mandaban las RROO de Carlos III, y eran la tradición de siempre del Ejército Español, y de esa marina que gobernó los mares, no hace tanto tiempo.
Por favor, si hay alguien serio por aquí, que lea esta revista, en la que se se habla de alguna de estas cosas.
http://www.ejercitos.org/revista/4.zip
http://www.ejercitos.org/revista.php
Perdón por la publicidad, pero es importante que se sepa que en España, hay quien siente vergüenza por el gobierno que tiene. Y que saben lo que es un ejército de verdad.
Saludos
Spanish soldiers are brave and patriots, not our president and ministry of defense...
"Más vale honra sin barcos que barcos sin honra."
Casto Méndez Núñez (puerto del Callao 2 de mayo de 1866)
So, they are very angry because an spanish officer "refuse" to help in something and claims we are a gang of thieves that stole their clothes.
Well, to begin with this I must state a few questions.
- Are you sure it is an Spain´s duty to do those things? Spanish commanders in overseas missions do just EXACTLY what they are ordered to. Otherwise they are dismissed.
- Are you sure your clothes were stolen? Maybe the treacherous Afghan wind just fade them away. Anyway, if you let that your clothes had been stolen more than once in a war zone is because you are an moron/cretin/id ito(choose what fits you best if you understand any). If any of my soldiers would come with such a complaint he would be immediately arrested...for being an stupid, the worst crime in war times.
- Are you sure that the LC asked so following military regulations or he just asked "nicely", the way US commanders usually treat their allies. You "americans" are well known for being very polite and not arrogant or obnoxious at all!!! And yes, we Spanish are very famous for not being proud,or haughty. It seems nobody is perfect!
- If the number of comments from USA advising to let us alone, put us in jail or simply shoot us to death are the most popular idea of how to treat an ally that is trying to help you( in a war you started.)..no wonder you are the most hated country. I don´t need to imagine how you treat enemies, I saw it by myself. Don´t blame us if we don´t want to be too related with you.
- And to other “wise guys”, our rules of engagement are probably the most restrictive of all NATO. Lately our soldiers killed an Afghan approaching with a motorbike to a convoy that ignored the THREE warnings (laser point, Whistle, and warning shoots befote shoot to wound, not to kill) and it almost start a nacional debate…and of course our yellow stripe government gave money to the family because it could not be proved he was a taliban( the convoy continued). This is with what our army must deal with…
- Leaking a complaint to the press instead of following the regulations is something used by politicians, not officers and gentlemen. No wonder that lots of US officers finished their careers as politicians. Probably they intended so when joined the army.
To finish this, I must say that is very arrogant to look at your allies from an ivory tower paid with the 5% of the GNP of a big country.
Next time just think that Spain only use a 1% of their GNP in their military Budget. And don´t make me tell how is spent (waste, really) It´s a big effort for us to help an ally and unfortunately after 35 years of dictatorship (and centuries of war) our army is not very popular among Spanish.
We are now an “small” country but the main reason we are is because we spent some centuries using all our Money in stupid Wars all around the World. All empires fell for the same reason…too many Wars. I hope you´ll learn the lesson before…
Anyway, if finally our officer is to blame for this incident, I offer my most sincere apologies, but as I have stated befote precedents don´t help your claims very much. So do not judge so lightly with such a poor information and understand that being an ally is not being an slave.
I believe it´s our duty to help you and in my opinión Al-Qaeda must be wiped from Earth
We shouldn,t be afraid from them, they should be very afraid of US.
Ps: Don´t forget that with all your power and money invested in this war your army is also hand-tied…not as much as us, but you are too. Try to be more understanding.
We are dying there because our goverment don't give us what we need.
What I can imagine is that we don't have concrete, whasing machines, neither gravel. The last milk supply to our troops was corrupted (look our newspapers: www.elmundo.es www.libertaddigital.com).
Our JEME ("spanish pentagon chief") said one month ago that the spanish solider must learn to survive and fight with no resources (from the spanish army), but using the resources that can find by himself (spanish DoD magazine- january).
Perhaps they are applying this new doctrine. We invented the "guerrilla". Now we are developing "bandolering" in Afganistan. :-D (I'm crying).
You can't imagine a US goverment allowing to a local governor to forbid and punish the use of english languaje in (eg) California. It is happening in Spain. So have pattient with our soldiers.
Bye
Y mas que ponernos verdes internacionalme nte, se trata de explicar lo inexplicable. Nuestra tropa no tiene la culpa si no les envian calzones ni jabon ni lavadoras.(sufi cientes)... ¿desde cuando tenemos lavadoras (suficientes) en misiones de este estilo?? Pero si no hay agua para ducharse, la vamos a tener para lavadoras. No me extraña que no se las presten a los de otros paises.
fue titadine o C4. Y no goma2eco y vale ya.
Spanish Navy Infantry DOES NOT come from the US Marines. The corps was created more than two centuries before(1537)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Navy_Marines
I´m very ashamed for the ignorance of one of my compatriots.
Spanish Navy Infantry does not come from the US Marines...It was created more than TWO centuries(1537) before the USMC.
The logistic situation in QeN is difficult, and the Spanish and Americans work together to solve it. The Spanish base is under construction and will be finished this summer. Now they are moving from the old base to the new one.
There are several Americans liaison in the Spanish operations centre of QeN, and all the problems among units (not countries) should be solved through them. But at this time there is a high level of mutual cooperation and collaboration between 82nd Airborne and the Spanish units. I have met these Americans officers and they are happy with our collaboration.
But, there is a problem with the small unit that lives in the airport terminal in QeN. The soldiers that refuel the choppers. They arrived in November due to a increase in the refuelling capability for a specific operation. They were going to stay there only for few days, later weeks and it seems to be month. In that time, Spanish Base Commander requested them about their needs, but they said that they were going to leave that place soon. The US soldier’s conditions were very hard, with only one dirty WC and no hot meal. The building were they lives are not Spanish installations, so we can do nothing for them. They are there due a personal agreement with the airport director (afghan).
The solution is to determine if the refuel detachment is really need to be maintained, establish the needs for the soldiers (food, lodging,…) and sign an agreement of support with the Spanish Base Commander (a few lines document). But the “provisionally” situation doesn’t allow doing so. But the 82nd Airborne Commander has to take the initiative to solve the problem, don’t leave the people with boots in the ground to do so.
Anyway this personal are supported as much as the Spanish can do, and we consider them brothers in arms and friends. I have a lot of pictures of them playing football in the parking lot, and working really hard refuelling the Apaches and from the USMC KC-130.
I understand that is very easy to put your opinion in a web seated in your warm chair but think in the people that are doing the hard and dirty job. We understand ourselves very well and I’ll never leave an allied and a friend without my support. Please, we are at war, did you noticed?
Also I understand that they are living in quarters outside spanish control, dependent on afghan authorities.
Juan also said that the spanish commander requested info about the specific needs of the US soldiers and was told it would be a brief stay.
An also I understand that the means to solve this situation exist under current regulations, and that no need exists for US and spanish people to quarrel in this forum about a minor incident among allied troops.
On the other hand looks desperately to appear in a picture with the "good"Obama, because Bush means all the evil of the world.
Spanish troops and officers are good, generous, disciplined and brave. Pleasse do not question this.
Just help us to kick in the ass out of the office this bad President.
Antonio, former Spanish NCO.
That is simply not true. Spain had America as an inspiration for the first Spanish Constitution of 1812. Also, the Spanish Army fought in the side of America in the war of american independence, along with France, and against Great Britain. They were allies of America then, and warm friends. And USA knows perfectly that Spain helped them to get their independence. Today, Spain and USA are also allies and friends. We have so many things in common, that it would be a nonsense to focus on our differences. Of course, there are people in Spain as in USA that dislike each other, but the majority of spaniards and americans know that our alliance is for the greater good, and we support each other.
Historically then, americans and spaniards have many things in common. Pride, individuality, admiration of courage, a deep sense of individual freedom, and a respect of the multicultural aspects that make up our nations.
2.- The situation referred in the mail could be true or could not. Imagine it's true. Perhaps it's Spanish fault... or perhaps not! When somebody is rude with you, it's possible you did something wrong with him.
The term spaniard was implemented in S XVII, when the english want to mention with a injurious term to the spanish. It cames from a pirate called Drake, that said to his client "So please your Majesty, to singe the King of Spain's beard; it has grown somewhat too long.". So spani'ard (spain's beard) in slang.
So, I prefer to say that i'm spanish (born in Spain). The people from the rest (USA & Canada) of America are "colombianos", "mejicanos", or south-americans.
Few people in Spain know the procedence of "spaniard" because of PSOE education plans. (the socialism goverments of spain).
The US has only these true allies: The English, Canadians, Australians & New Zealanders.
Mire usted, yo soy reservista voluntario y quiero a mi país y a las FFAA mucho mas que usted con absoluta seguridad, por eso me permito distinguir entre un presidente y su pueblo, y, por supuesto, entre este y las FFAA, donde es muy ampliamente despreciado.
Cuando Bush fue presidente de EEUU muchos de sus compatriotas lo criticaban dentro y fuera del país si contemplaciones , que para eso es un país democrático, y nadie allí ponía en cuestión su patriotismo.
Casto Mendez Nuñez, contralmirante de la Armada española y héroe del Callao, rehusó el nombramiento de teniente general por parte del gobierno provisional de España en 1868, porque para él la Patria estaba por encima de cualquier gobierno.
The Infantería de Marina (Navy Infantry) or Spanish Navy Marines is a corps within the Spanish Navy responsible for providing amphibious warfare from the sea utilizing naval platforms and resources. The Infantería de Marina is fully integrated into the Spanish Navy Structure.
It was formed in 1537 by Charles I of Spain (also known as Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor), making it the oldest marine corps in the world, drawing from the Compañías Viejas del Mar de Nápoles
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Navy_Marines
¡¡HAY QUE LEER MÁS Y ESTUDIAR (NO LA LOGSE) ANTES DE HABLAR!!
Conservatives in countries like the UK have even had to actually make pro-American political ads in order to try and counteract the rabid anti-Americanis m there; to give you an idea of how bad it is. And a public poll conducted in Germany if I remember correctly actually showed a majority of Germans believing America is a greater threat to world peace than Saddam Huessein...
I also don't know how often people watch foreign media but it amazed me to find out just how America-obsesse d the rest of the world is. It wouldn't be an exaggeration to say that many people living outside of America follow American political elections even more closely than they follow their own elections.
And there's almost always a negative news report about America every single day in the foreign press. They're constantly harping on Gitmo, Gitmo, Gitmo, more Gitmo, America's refusal to adopt the Kyoto treaty, Gitmo, our awful support for Israel, our crimes against humanity committed daily in Iraq and Afghanistan, Gitmo, our 3rd world health care system, Gitmo, our attempt to militarily takeover Haiti, Gitmo, our barbaric support for the death penalty and gun ownsership, Gitmo etc.
It almost seems like their liberal media and intellectual elites have an agenda of bashing America and reassuring weary taxpayers that their skyhigh taxes are really all worth it. I mean, think of the alternative: they could end up like America! The horror!
Combine that constant stream of anti-Americanis m with our glaring cultural and economic dominance and you get some ugly jealousy mixed in as well. Afterall, nobody likes to be reminded that their country isn't as important as another country. Which I personally suspect is one of the main not-so-secret motivations for further growing the power and scope of the European Union beyond all reason.
On a continental scale they can at least start to rival America in both economic, geographical, demographic and military strength. Indeed, many Europeans speak of the need for a less America-focused "multi-polar" world and refer to America as a beligerent and dangerous "hyper-power". Many Europeans would like to see Europe rival America and offset our global influence on geo-politics especially.
Most Americans are simply unaware of this petty and treachorous backstabbing (like the shock over this Spanish treatment of our soldiers in Afghanistan displays) and need to read more German and French news especially in order to see the direction our supposed allies are moving towards.
It's my opinion that if the Europeans want to play hardball then so be it. We should demand full repayment for the Marshall Plan (plus interest), pull out of NATO (and all other one-sided security agreements) and if they refuse to pay up then we should start underminding them diplomatically just like they're constantly doing to us.
The socialist European welfare state model is currently on the tipping point. All it will take is a reclusive, spiteful America to bring it all crashing down. Which I think would actually be doing them a favor in the long run...
I've worked with many different nations and the only difference I've seen is the amount of money their nation spends on them, but I haven't seen big differences in profesionalism between servicemen doing the same job, but you seem to think that your troops are brave and profesional just because they are americans and our troops are cowards, useless, etc...because they are spanish....Righ t now, if I was the spanish commander on that site and I got wind of the bullshit you were talking about us I would throw you out, I would put my career on the line just to spite you, arrogant bstrds I just hope he is more professional and even headed than me, I'm sure he is, that's why he gets the big bucks, as I'm sure that the US soldiers working alongside the spanish don't have any complaints about them and viceversa.
Yes, USA is an "hyper-power", really "THE hyper-power". As I stated before your military budget is bigger than the next 20 countries added. Your influence in economics, cultural and political terms in the rest of world is huge....WHY in the world you are surprised that the rest of the world fears/hates/adm ires/envy you? It have been the same way since the beginning of mankind.
French will never forgive you for saving their asses two world wars in a row. UK will never accept that they would had lost both wars without your help but it´s easier for them to accept you as they think you come from them, also they feel better looking at you as a bunch of rich red-necks that shatter their language . Germans will never(hardly) accept you for the opposite reasons.
The Marshall plan did not help with this, as I said about french people usually resents against those who are in debt with. By the way, there were not Marshall plan in Spain. We were not eligible since we were a fascist dictatorship... thing that did not suppose any problem ten years after when USA needed some bases to fight the cold war(you are as pragmatist as british, which I admire).
When Spain was the hyper-power(yes , very long ago but it was so) we had to stand with the same crap. Black Legend is called and it was made from a lot of bullshit created to justify the attacks against us. I don´t mean that everything was a lie, but most part of accusations could fit easily with the countries which were accusing Spain. Agit prop of those times...And if you want to know more you can find the same against Romans, British, Egypt,...The bigger the empire was the bigger the lies. Yours is very big, still young but with no real opposition ...by now if we except the inside opposition Michael Moore´s type.
About your ideas about weapons, death penalty, health care I insist on what I just said...you have enough opposition inside your country for being surprised. Also, if you are the actual empire why in the world you act surprised when the rest of the world is very interested in your internal affairs? They have a lot of influence around the world. Problem is that average US citizens do not realize it. Maybe you should be worried that the rest of the world does realize it.
And last but not least, Europe does not want to compete against you in the military way, we just don´t want to become a colony of your economic superpower. Excuse us for trying to compete but I thought US were always with the free enterprise and europeans are just trying to make commercial agreements not just to compete against US but with(not against) all the world.
About the Marshall plan, IT WAS A VERY GOOD BUSINESS FOR USA!!!(Also for europe I don´t deny it) It´s funny how you try to state that it was like a gift that USA´s generosity sent to europe...
The UE is spending billions every year in "structural funds" to emerging europeans countries and that happens because is absolutely proven is a very good business for both sides, not because the great generosity of Germans/French/ UK/Italy/Spain( yes, Spain too) hearts. Maybe the idea was inspired by Marshall Plan I have to admit. When any idea is good....
So, please stop complaining about how badly the rest of the world mistreat you. Try to be more critic with yourselves because you are far from perfect as all empires have been. It´s the problem when you are powerful, natural trend is to abuse of it and if you check fairly you´ll find loads of shit to be ashamed with....
We spanish have learned about it, probably too much because it seems we just want to remember our dark side and anyone who claim that there were good things too is immediately qualified as an A-grade fascist.
Funny thing is that there are hints that the same is starting to happen in the US. Remember, your worst enemy is inside you.
Kind regards,
Ps: For the record, I believe there are lots of good and excellent things in the US and probably my idea of democracy is closest to what US have than an european social democracy model...but believe me, there are also very good things at this side of atlantic sea.
Arms "commerce" is wonderful. They are made with the state of the art technology so lots of money is used in R&D that is after used in other fields that gets competitive advantages. Good for the economy.
The best brains can be attracted not only for great salaries but for patriotism too! Great motivation that usually pays off.
When you have a license to sell weapons is like printing your own money (oops, US Government already do) most popular and best sold weapons have no patents rights and are highly demanded...No surprise that politicians insists on keeping the internal market.
On the contrary, and the best (there are more but I´m quite tired)...everyt hing is destroyed in the war or become obsolete so fast that you can start over and over. Yep, no wonder one of the most profitable funds invest in that field.
Yes, if USA would not have enemies they should have to invent/create them. It´s a luck that USA never, ever, ever have done such a nasty thing.
It´s not surprising that so many US citizens seems so eager to make more enemies, even among their allies...Busine ss is business.
http://www.lavanguardia.es/internacional/noticias/20100313/53898317670/espana-defiende-su-relacion-con-las-tropas-de-ee.uu.-afganistan-qala-carme-chacon-estado-mayor-rober.html
1. Michael Yon voices a complaint by US troops at a Spanish base in Afghanistan and I believe the petty behavior it reveals. It reveals envy (a trait even Spaniards concede is a mark of their national character) of a more professional army that is actually fighting. I can feel sympathy for some of the Spanish army professionals whose political masters treat them as social workers, but that's their problem mostly. If you don't care to fight, at least don't get in the way of those that do.
2. chest-beating of the type "we invented the marines", is irrelevant. And "in any case, we have lost 80+ servicemen in Afghanistan": well, if we look at how they died, we see that 60+ did so when their cheap Ukrainian passenger plane flew into a hill in Turkey, another 20 died when their helicopter accidentally flew into the ground, one died of a heart attack after an excercise routine, another turned his vehicle over, etc. Nonetheless regretable, but certainly not much related to combat. Why have the latest deaths been mostly of Colombians enrolled in the Spanish army?: Spaniards don't want to be soldiers and if they do it's for UN peacekeeping episodes.
3. Blas de Lezo has to go back to the early 1700s to find a suitable hero after whom to name himself. This says something about Spanish military history since then. The fact is there is little to commend it in terms of winning wars, other than that of 1936-1939 against itself, the war against Napoleon's occupation which required decisive British and Portuguese involvement and generalship, and a 19th Century naval expedition to the Pacific coast of South America to bombard the ports of the recently independent and mostly unarmed republics of Chile and Peru. Remember the Spanish-America n War, about how Spain lost Spanish Morocco without firing a shot in the 50s, Spanish neutrality in both World Wars (but actively pro-nazi in WW2), etc? Not glorious. Please don't even attempt to make us believe otherwise.
4. so, the US is an empire and it promotes wars in order to fund its arms industry. From where I see it, US taxpayers and soldiers are bearing most (although recognizing that the US has some true allies in this, some of them European) of the brunt of the defence of a war on Western civilization. You do not care to accept that you and certain other so-called Western allies are free-riding in defence terms. If Europe is going to really be a world power in more than social-spending and unemployment, then it is going to have to invest resources in defence and believe that there are causes worth fighting for. Alternatively, you will continue calling the US when things get out of hand, as of late in Yugoslavia or maybe even Spain one day when you finally deal with your regional nationalist-soc ialists or wake up to finding that Al-Andalus is not yours again. You can't just pay ransoms and desert your allies when you feel threatened, reality eventually comes home.
5. you think the US should be worried if Spain were to leave NATO, I don't. Pardon me, but it is mostly irrelevant. Apart from the use of a small naval base at Rota, what's its value? What would Spain's armed forces be like without their connection to NATO?
6. If you feel hurt by the fact that someone else complains, try to resolve the cause of the complaint, rather than insulting the complainer.
Sorry if there are errors but the "English" is not my language, so I write in Spanish and translate with Google.
Do not go into criticisms that only get about tensions high and therefore will not use words like jealousy, smelly, cowardice etc ...
1 Our army is certainly smaller than yours as it is easy to understand but is designed to cope with potential threats that surround us here, namely Morocco, Algeria, southern flank of NATO and according to our economic potential . That is why we invest more in naval means (AEGIS, aircraft carriers, amphibious ships, submarines etc ...) and air assets (F-18, EF Tiphon, A-400, Helicopter Tiger etc ... that of terrestrial (a matter of doctrine and strategy) . Anyway the current government is making significant efforts to provide the Army (Infantry, Legion, Regular, Special Operations Group etc ...) means that there are more modern today as anti-IED vehicles (RG-31 General Dynamics with external machine gun by remote control, shielded Wildcats FDI, new lightly armed German HK-G36 etc ..., and maintains several UN and NATO missions abroad as Lebanon (which you will remember well) and Afghanistan. In the latter we in ISAF, not in "Enduring Freedom". We also have F-100 AEGIS frigates with helicopters, Marines and P-3 Orion aircraft off the coast of Somalia (also remember this country) in the operation Atalanta against piracy the Indian Ocean.
I remind you that the ISAF mission is focused on reconstruction (roads, hospitals, insurance ...), while "Enduring Freedom" is a purely military offensive. Thus our militates are not equipped with heavy weapons or other means (That if we have), but the ROE is changing and will send 500 more soldiers and the new Tiger attack helicopter (Apache type) as they become ready and well-trained crews.
We have also put great effort in the bases (Herat and Qala i Naw (the latter still being finalized) with all possible means (medical helicopter transport of injured, decent housing, meals, in short, everything necessary for a good defense and running.
Our army is composed of trained professionals and prestige, especially our Marines and elite legionnaires considered inside and outside our borders and with a long history of service to the Kingdom of Spain. The percentage of foreigners (only South American to accept the special ties that bind us to them and have common language) is less than 7% are illiterate as someone said we all have to pass entrance exams and related training. It is untrue that he killed a higher percentage of South American Spanish soldiers only have to look a bit on the Internet and newspaper archives to prove it. Besides, they are excellent soldiers, mostly Colombians and Salvadorans in our short but eventful stay in Najaf "Iraq" (political issue campaign promise) came to fight hand to hand with a knife. Our military are not politicized, but subject to the orders of the executive power as in any democratic country where there is separation of powers etc ...
I think we know the European reality and Spanish in particular. The socialist parties here (Social-Democra ts really) are not communists, I rather compare them with his Democratic party, ie emphasizes social and welfare issues but with laws and democratic norms within the rules of free markets and civil rights.
We really have more in common with you than differences. The latter are mostly in foreign policy (eg weapons of mass destruction in Iraq is wrong, Palestine-Israe l Problem Troubleshooting Cuban etc ... but we like with Iran, North Korea, Honduras, Venezuela, Terrorism. Otherwise compete commercially of course (this will not talk more)
You can talk about the past, marshal plan 1st and Second World War etc ... and not us? We also have history, a long history full of facts more or less glorious. For 500 years or so (without looking further back) in military matters, we have been at war with all European countries that had at that time from Holland to France, from Britain to Russia through Sweden, Portugal, the Ottoman Empire Algeria or Morocco. Almost always won, sometimes lost and we had so many civil wars, uprisings and revolutions that maybe that's why, we were deeply etched in blood and fire the horror of war and all the ills associated with it. Throughout the centuries we have bled in the demographic and have ruined economically dying or migrating hundreds of thousands of Spanish. Only now after many years we are recovering a bit to our old selves and thriving (if we leave the current crisis).
Sorry if there are errors but the "English" is not my language, so I write in Spanish and translate with Google.
Do not go into criticisms that only get about tensions high and therefore will not use words like jealousy, smelly, cowardice etc ...
1 Our army is certainly smaller than yours as it is easy to understand but is designed to cope with potential threats that surround us here, namely Morocco, Algeria, southern flank of NATO and according to our economic potential . That is why we invest more in naval means (AEGIS, aircraft carriers, amphibious ships, submarines etc ...) and air assets (F-18, EF Tiphon, A-400, Helicopter Tiger etc ... that of terrestrial (a matter of doctrine and strategy) . Anyway the current government is making significant efforts to provide the Army (Infantry, Legion, Regular, Special Operations Group etc ...) means that there are more modern today as anti-IED vehicles (RG-31 General Dynamics with external machine gun by remote control, shielded Wildcats FDI, new lightly armed German HK-G36 etc ..., and maintains several UN and NATO missions abroad as Lebanon (which you will remember well) and Afghanistan. In the latter we in ISAF, not in "Enduring Freedom". We also have F-100 AEGIS frigates with helicopters, Marines and P-3 Orion aircraft off the coast of Somalia (also remember this country) in the operation Atalanta against piracy the Indian Ocean.
I remind you that the ISAF mission is focused on reconstruction (roads, hospitals, insurance ...), while "Enduring Freedom" is a purely military offensive. Thus our militates are not equipped with heavy weapons or other means (That if we have), but the ROE is changing and will send 500 more soldiers and the new Tiger attack helicopter (Apache type) as they become ready and well-trained crews.
We have also put great effort in the bases (Herat and Qala i Naw (the latter still being finalized) with all possible means (medical helicopter transport of injured, decent housing, meals, in short, everything necessary for a good defense and running.
Our army is composed of trained professionals and prestige, especially our Marines and elite legionnaires considered inside and outside our borders and with a long history of service to the Kingdom of Spain. The percentage of foreigners (only South American to accept the special ties that bind us to them and have common language) is less than 7% are illiterate as someone said we all have to pass entrance exams and related training. It is untrue that he killed a higher percentage of South American Spanish soldiers only have to look a bit on the Internet and newspaper archives to prove it. Besides, they are excellent soldiers, mostly Colombians and Salvadorans in our short but eventful stay in Najaf "Iraq" (political issue campaign promise) came to fight hand to hand with a knife. Our military are not politicized, but subject to the orders of the executive power as in any democratic country where there is separation of powers etc ...
I think we know the European reality and Spanish in particular. The socialist parties here (Social-Democra ts really) are not communists, I rather compare them with his Democratic party, ie emphasizes social and welfare issues but with laws and democratic norms within the rules of free markets and civil rights.
We really have more in common with you than differences. The latter are mostly in foreign policy (eg weapons of mass destruction in Iraq is wrong, Palestine-Israe l Problem Troubleshooting Cuban etc ... but we like with Iran, North Korea, Honduras, Venezuela, Terrorism. Otherwise compete commercially of course (this will not talk more)
You can talk about the past, marshal plan 1st and Second World War etc ... and not us? We also have history, a long history full of facts more or less glorious. For 500 years or so
Al-Andalus? Please read a little, you'll find abundant information on the Internet, (I get tired and not typing)
What he says in paragraph 4 as Heisenhower also said in his final speech and Kennedy on TV. The lobbying power of military companies is excessive from my point of view. As for arms spending potential you'd be surprised if you add European. Maybe someday there posiblilidad to prove it. Read a little about it also. Although it is difficult to agree because there are several cases of collaboration for new aircraft (EF-Eurofigter Tiphon) (A-400 aircraft most modern and largest Milt and road transport) and some countries like Germany and France made excellent weapons (missile Taurus cruise almost all German) (German Leopard Tank) (French Rafale aircraft) (Swedish Gripen) (French Scorpene submarine) (New SSK-AIP submarine S-80 Spanish, the largest conventional) and there are bodies of elite and French Legionnaires Spanish and actually lethal if necessary. This proved even by U.S. military in exercises regularly does NATO.
Yugoslavia not only participated in the U.S., also almost all of Europe-NATO countries were. Spain for example F-18 aircraft sent to the Aviano base in Italy and participated in real missions against Serbia to fulfill its obligation without any problems. The army sent soldiers to Mostar and noted for his role in defending the civilian population to risk their lives (there were still cases where a detachment with BMR's defending a group of civilians in heavily outnumbered and retreated not saved. Dutchmen fled in a similar situation and there was a slaughter of civilians will remember that this came out much on television.
Spain's role in NATO irrelevant? Whoever has the mission to protect the southern flank and rear serve as support and logistics during the Cold War? And yet even under Franco was not integrated into NATO. Strategically speaking Spain is regarded as a major carrier of their geographical situation and you had bases in Zaragoza, Torrejon de Ardoz, Moron de la Frontera and Rota. Rota small? Use Google-map and read a little please. As for the size of our land army is true that is small compared to U.S. or even other European countries but is growing and fewer foreigners ever come. But our "Navy" or Armada as we say is very good, only Britain and France are better and Italy more or less equal. The Air Force is highly regarded even by the U.S., and our pilots (Navy Harrier also) participate in joint exercises of NATO and the U.S. as Red Flag, recently in the Mediterranean Sea in NATO naval maneuvers of two Harrier aircraft carrier Principe de Asturias "crossed the bow of an aircraft carrier escorted by his Task Force, ie, the" sunk ". It says so? Do you think that makes any driver?.
Finally, there has been no official U.S. complaint, conversely, have sent a letter to current greeting command in Afghanistan. Anyway I think if something happened was for a lot of misunderstandin g or timely performance of an individual and that is not the normal behavior of any Spanish military. If anything characterizes us today is the hospitality and generosity of our people. Spain stands out in the humanitarian and economic aid to countries and third world brothers in proportion to our size and "specific weight". A single example, our rate of organ donation for transplantation is the highest in the world and are perhaps the only country to meet the standard of donating 0.7 of GDP despite the economic crisis (non-financial, that our banks up until now have resisted even bought UK and U.S. banks)
A greeting.
who created the firs marine corps? I feel sorry that most spanish don´t know it. But do you think I care to teach you something about a country that probably more of the 50% of your college students don´t know how to place it on a map? I´m not so pretentious like trying to improve your education system, I have enough with mine.
I never stated about casualties because there are just a few in combat, and I think is not a question to brag about. The helicopter was attacked but our government forbid survivors to make any statement about the crash.
Spanish people is told that we are in Afganisthan in a peace mission. Our government refuses to accept the world "war". Injured and killed have the same status as if they had a car accident in a Madrid´s base.
About the war against Napoleon we were the first army that defeated the invincible(then ) french army (and no, no english army, battalion or platoon were around). Yes, we suffered then defeat after defeat but the main thing is that spanish army never surrendered. They regrouped again and again http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peninsular_War even when there were no government to rule them. Look at how happy was Napoleon about that invasion and how he judged that mistake.
About Portugal, a few years before (1801)Spanish army invaded Portugal and finished the war in 18 days. If you think Portugal and British army was then such a threat for french army I advise you to take a look of how big that armies were and if you think about it you´ll find something missing. As you seem to have a good knowledge about history I guess you´ll get some conclusions.
And yes, thanks God Spain haven´t had to be in a war in the last 60 years. But it was at 1975 when we left spanish Sahara(not Morocco. Morocco invaded it and natives are still fighting Morocco´s army) and it was because Spanish people is against any war and less for a colony.
At WWII we were neutral( Spain stated that in 1938!! which caused tensions with Germany) excepted against URSS because the government then was ferociously anti-communist.
I don´t think that USA is acting as "Globocop" for just their pure heart or just to defend the freedom or western civilization. And at least by now Spain never had your uninterested help( for example we were out of Marshall Plan when we really need it)...it have been the other way and Spain have accepted to do it because our mutual interest.
R. Konkel. I did not say at all that the arms lobby started any war. I just said that arms are one of the best business in the USA (am I lying? I hope not). I even recognize that it also affects positively in other economic fields. But still, even not affirming such thing, there are a lot of questions that arise and I wanted to stated as the old refrain..Quid prodest? Then, it easy to get some conclusions. Are mine the only truth? I would not dare to say so.
Also, I never said that this problem in Afganisthan is Spain´s or USA´s fault. I just made a few questions and remarks because all this thing does not make any sense to me. Yes, I added some sarcasm but just to make it more fun. At least to me...
My knickname is not because I had to desperately seek for an Spanish hero.In Spain not very much people knows his name and I did not expect that any american could know about him. Blas de Lezo is only remembered by the Spanish Navy and is difficult to find any reference in Spanish books about him. I like him because his story shows clearly how anglo-saxons historians write about their history, no self-critizism at all and how easily and often Spain had mistreated their best men.
But anyway, our military heros can be old, but I assure you that we have lots more than you. It´s just a question of history and ours is much, much longer than yours. Don´t worry, your country will be tired of wars sooner or later as it happened with us. It´s a matter of time. Probably none of us will see it but I´m sure it will occur.
About Nato...too many points of view and all very respectable. You think you can fight your wars alone. Why don´t you do it instead of being constantly disturbed for clumsy allies like us?
And , I do not think we have a very good army, but as I reckon that fact I do not agree with the vision that anglo-saxon historians have written about Spanish history. It comes from biased viewpoints and the only thing I have to admit about it is that it was very intelligent from them to use history as another weapon to justify their politics. It´s against the truth and common sense but it helps to reach some goals.
Ps: Even winning all wars, there is always lost battles and lot of terrible facts within them. As I said before, all empires have fell for the same reason...too many wars. Keep being proud about yours and forget the costs of victories...
Michael Yon provides us with the truth of the situation on the ground in Afghanistan. It's our duty to act upon that in support of our troops.
I urge other readers to do the same.
A few comments about your latest points:
1. who invented the marines continues to be irrelevant to practically anything to do with this subject. Is this the reason your "soldiers" won't provide food to visiting US marines?
2. if your government is pathetic that's your problem. Isn't it true that each country has the government that it deserves?
3. Pedro, isn't it a Spanish saying that goes along the lines of "tell me what you boast about and I will know what you are lacking in"? Apply that to your last message. Try Scandinavian countries for aid percentages, try Spanish "solidarity" with dying Cuban dissidents, try Spanish cowardice in dealing with Morocco over the abandoned Saharauis and try the judicial cover-up over the train massacre in 2004.
4. it is truly unfortunate US students know so little about World geography, but yours probably don't know where Malawi is, see the symmetry?
5. the US has a shorter formal history than Spain: apart from the fact that Americans inherit the history of their European and other ancestors, I believe we are in great measure all shaped by our latest history, not that of many centuries ago. Need I really say anything more about Spanish history in the last two centuries? I suppose so.
6. Blas, Bailen was not the end of the Napleonic war in Spain, it was pretty much at the beginning. It was Wellington who kicked the French back over the Pyrennees and, incidentally, once in France, sent the Spanish troops with him back to Spain because of their uselesness and misconduct. The size of the armies had little to do with their effectiveness. What is undeniable, is the value in that war of Spanish civilian guerrilla warfare: it itied in well with an innate bandolero spirit that lives on in the theft of US servicemens' clothes in the laundry at QEN.
7. Yes Blas, Spain does not lately fight wars other than against itself and then shows how brave it is in the systematic massacres of prisoners. Spain was really neutral in WW2 because Hitler couldn't be bothered to accept the Caudillo's compensation demands to join the war and thought their armed forces incapable of being of much use. Please don't give me a speel on the huge value of the Blue Division in Russia and thus remind us all of whose side you were on.
8. Yes Blas, all powers have their day and the same will occur with the US. But before the US is relegated to the dustbin of history, many in countries such as yours will long for the days when the West lived a period of unparalelled freedom and progress under your despised "Anglo-Saxon" benefactors. Start teaching your kids broken mandarin and forget about your very short-lived experience of democracy.
8. Not that many "Anglo-Saxons" left in the US these days, but the term conforms to a permanent Spanish conspiratorial view of world affairs where Spain's rightful standing is belied by crafty foreign conspirators: Anglo-Saxons, Jews, bolsheviks, masons, whoever. Grow up. Much of objective Spanish written history of the last century has a great debt to "Anglo-Saxon" historians.
It has no sense to arguee if the spanish soldier are worst or better than the us soldier.
I suggest to came back to the blog article.
To be serious, the journalist need to add proves of the status of this base.
Because this and other silly situations are due to our goverment, what about if the US help us to derogate our Zapatero's franc-massonic anti-christian goverment?
:-D
Franco was "out of service"
France banned us to use the french weapons
US banned us to use the US weapons
If the Sahara became a peaceful morocco region, they (los moros de mierda) will have their back secured, and then, they will think in us.
With our goverment, if Morroco invade Ceuta, Melilla, or Canarias, nobody will help us to recover our territory (spanish territories since year 1200 more or less, several sicles before the existence of Morocco). And then,
France and US will forbid us to use the fighters and missiles, etc.
We must be a Nato ally, with a true occidental goverment, if we want to be well considered worldwide as a first world nation.
Now we are ally of Venezuela, Argentina, Cuba, Turquia, Siria, Palestina, Libia, ... countries without democracy.
good night
2- Yes, every country has the government that it deserves. It happens with you too. What I don´t get is what you are so proud of.
3-
4.- If you are able to make that analogy about Malawi vs Spain your ignorance is deeper than I thought. Spain is part and origin of your country. Do you think than even a 1% of your students know that Malawi is a country? Please.
5- You are wrong. What makes the spirit and the soul and present of a country is its history, longer or shorter. Your melting pot is not the sum of all histories of the different countries that came to US. That would be unintelligible or a complete pandemonium. Don´t mix personal stories with History.
6- Who said it was the end? It was the very beginning. Wellington army acted like a bunch of thieves and killers (even destroying Spanish industries in order that they could´t compete anymore with British manufactures) and even so they got help from Spanish governments in our own interests. The size doesn´t matter? Then you must explain that Wellington succeed against a much bigger and same skilled army just because he was just much better and a genius. Typical!
Spanish army in France did less of what french army( or British) had done to Spain a few years before. But this time Wellington showed more scruples in France than what he showed in Spain. Obviously it was because we were just savages.
And that bandolero spirit is exactly what made the germans stay out of our country during WWII. The same spirit probably that kicked you out from Vietnam.
About the alleged thieving I insist on what I already said. Anyway, you keep believing in this quarrel when a responsible of your army already had praised the spanish help at Qal e Naw.
7. For a country with racist laws until a few years ago, with a latent racism even now, responsible of innumerable indian´s massacres and even having a civil war( for that you should know better) you are incredible arrogant to judge the behavior of countries that you obviously know little. We were in a civil war but, what excuse do you have for instance at My Lai or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_crimes#United_States_perpetrated_crimes for example? How funny you are trying to believe you are so perfect. So little history for so many crimes. War is war no matter who fights...boy scout.
If at 1938 that caudillo proclaimed Spain´s neutrality. Why are you so eager to believe, like red wing historians that Franco wanted so hard to get into the war? Blue Division (15.000 men) was sent under the command of not fight against allies but only against URSS. Of course they were not important in the course of war but it served three purposes: a) Put less pressure to Spain´s government. b) Return in part the help received during our civil war and c) To show German what Spanish could do in order to make them think carefully an invasion. They succeed in that. The so racist Germans considered them very valuable and they were the only foreign division (250) totally integered in Wehrmacht. Read hitler´s and other generals opinions about them or http://www.feldgrau.com/InfDiv.php?ID=163
8- Nobody thought at late 80s that russian empire would fall apart in a few years. At 1946 British empire was at its best shape after winning WWII...This doesn´t ring any bells to you?
And sorry, Anglo-saxons had never been our benefactors, they intended to destroy us since they started to count at international arena. And it wasn´t any conspiracy at all it was a normal course of history.
British policy have been always to weaken any emergent power and it worked really well. Now they are just your faithful buddy in order to keep counting on international scenario. They do not like it very much but is better than the alternative. Aren´t pragmatical those smart bastards?
Those anglo-saxons historians has their view, but is quite suspicious that they are always the heroes and spanish are nothing but a superstitious bunch of illiterate thieves that always lost war after war and only survived in history by anglo-saxon mercy. It´s quite notorious how the invincible armada is studied and continuously published by british but nobody knows about the counter-armada they sent a year after(1589)to destroy Spain ports and fleet in order to complete 1588 victory. Have you ever knew about it? British students neither.
That is the difference ,Spanish historians seem to like to punish their own and Anglo-saxon don´t. Really I´d prefer second option but I try to find the balance.
And last...are you serious about the " conspiranoia"? One of the America´s favorites entertainment are conspiracies. You are still looking for the second shooter of JFK, etc, etc..., and think that everybody in the world conspires to destroy you. This forum is a big proof of it. And you dare to blame us for that? You are very funny.
Spain was never a great nation. It was just a another assemblage of pirates and thieves, like most of Europe at the time, who went around the world stealing and looting at the point of a sword or musket! So don't try to ply me with the liquor of past grandiose embellishments of Spanish history, I am NOT impressed! In fact I hold most of Europe in disdain as being nothing more than a morass of inbred juveniles still needing toilet training!!
His hard hitting honest reporting has made things happen that four star generals and pitiful politicians could not get accomplished. If he puts out the call for underwear, the shelves at the local Walmart emptied in response!!! We need MORE Michaels in the field!!!
Please keep yourself safe Michael, you have made an enemy of the Spanish and I for one do not trust them as far as I could throw one of their insipid terrorist pandering politicians. Watch your back around these cowards, Michael!!!
The data that gives you about the latest conflict in which we played were incorrect. Napoleon? Buff, if it goes backwards, that if, without knowing the real story. Napo said the same thing my big mistake was the invasion of Spain, Spanish rose en masse on May 2 1808ganano his army battles (dance) and the `people made the mountain initiating what became known as guerrilla warfare word known around the world and that is Spanish, of course. More than 500,000 soldiers of the best army in those days were unable to subdue a peasant pcos and an army that yano was like before. Seems to have a very selective memory. We left Morocco for the UN so decided, like France and even then there were two conflicts, Sahara and Sidi Ifni. The sahara we left by the weakness of the government of the time (Franco was dying) and that what we faced was the "Green March" composed by civilians so he decided to leave the territory to prevent a slaughter. The Green March has become known after it was funded by the U.S.. In Sidi Ifni win was in 1957 I think (by the way that the latter had to use old aircraft that our "American Friend" vetoed the use of which they had bought. In Chile and Peru had a diplomatic and economic disputes from to many years and fleet admiral threatened you with Mendez Nunez was shot and when the Admiral said that about "The Queen and I prefer to honor without ships than ships without honor, of course, the fleet stood quite still you Like the English ships were there. You'll also recall that in its war of independence Mr. Galvez organized a small army to attack in Florida and the British navy of Spain (yet severe) collaborated with France in their struggle. King Carlos III gave several million reais to help and more than half of its territory was then the crown of the Kingdom of Spain. As you paid us?. Starting a war for Cuba under the false pretext the sinking of the battleship "Maine" thing you have recognized same time. Cuba for us it was a colony, if not a province, a darling, full of Spanish and Spanish children, was the pearl of the Caribbean. The first A railway built in Spain we did there as well as universities, cathedrals, schools ... yet we feel deep inside and our love for the Cubans still alive, even the dictator Castro is the son of Spanish, you know?. Besides, that war was lost because politicians of the time. The fleet was not bad but lacked resources, coal, ammunition, personnel and badly maintained. It was an ocean fleet with ironclad vessels with less firepower but quicker so the strategy was a mistake used. It would have been much more effective attack and block the Atlantic port exploiting the characteristics of the boats. you would have been forced to defend their ports and forget about Cuba. On land we also win, we have 300,000 troops there, equipped with rifles Mauser was the best at that time but politicians again adopted a defensive strategy to have the numerical advantage and be well armed. Our leaders were always exceptions except nefarious Emperor Charles V, Philip II, Charles III and in modern times Felipe Adolfo Suárez González and under King Juan Carlos I. Finally, in the Second World War did not participate by leaving a civil war, the country was devastated and the dictator Franco thought it best to remain neutral despite pressure from Hitler . must be all that Franco did well.
Yet Franco allowed the formation of a division of volunteers to fight the Communists in the Russian front. Militarily speaking soldiers were considered excellent.
It seems right that I said that about "with friends like these who needs enemies",
...Is it about how terrible-masoni c-communist-ter rorist-antiamer ican-islamic is the spanish government of spanish President Zapatero?
or... Maybe is it about the situation and behaving of the allied troops in Afghan?
Why, in the hell, do these lads not look for another anti-gov blog? They've got thousands of them
Gosh, these patriotic spaniards, kind of chetniks, for them, everybody is red and love to kill each other, all day talking about who's got bigger cojones, maybe they don't realize that their caudillo is dead long time ago, by the way, Hitler and Mussolini as well are dead, ...they should wake up and take a look at the free world, come on, let's rock
Antes del 11-M, a pesar que 90% (no 80 si me acuerdo bien) de los españoles se pusierorn en contra de la guerra de Irak, todos los sondeos enseñaban un ventaja de 7% a favor del Partido de José María Aznar. Cuando Al Qa'eda atentó en Atocha, España rindió y votó para el Partido de Zapatero como quería Al Qa'eda. Sin este 'ayuda externa' PSOE no hubiera ganado las elecciones de 14.03.04. Además, después, Zapatero se rectificó sobre la retirada de las tropas españoles de Irak. Pero todo era un engaño. Declaró que si ciertos condiciones se cumplieron con el ONU por EEUU llega cierta fecha, se quedarían. Pués, que pasó Francisco? Una semana así antes de la fecha tope de Zapatero, cuando EEUU estaba a borde de llegar a dicho acuerdo con el UNO reclamado por Zapatero, él anunció la retirada unilateral de sus tropas. Que mala fe. Que malvado. Que deshonradez.
Mira Francisco, soy Britanico. Llevo más de 7 años aquí en España. Gracias a José María Aznar España es un país ejemplar en tratar con el terrorismo domestico - a verguenza nuestra que nos entregamos a PIRA (imaginatelo Otegi en el gobierno del País Vasco a cambio de 'la paz'!) - pero cuando se trata del Estados Unidos y la guerra contra el terrorism islamico, el español por medio tiene una intolerancia patalógico. Los comentarios 'anti-yanqui' aquí no son atipicos de la intolerancia horripilante anti-estadounid ense aquí. Seguro que bastante de los 'anglo' aquí se enfadan con España por este asunto, pero no es exactamente sin provocación, no?
Claro que el ejercíto de la tierra de España es una fuerza militar con gran tradición y hazañas de valentía, pero si lo que ha puesto Michael Yon es de verdad, y no hay razón para dudarlo, parece que el mando do las fuerzas militares españoles en este base Afgano es de la misma indolé de sus jefes politicos Zapatero y Blanco.
Lo que va mano a mano en España con el anti-'norte'ame ricanismo siempre es el anti-semitismo. Nos acordemos del libelo de sangre de Blanco cuando Israel lanzó un ataque defensivo contra Hizbollah en el libano "civiles son blancos buscados". Ni olvidemos de las palabras delatados de Zapatero en una cena de la Moncloa privada "se puede entender el Holocuasto".
Bajo Aznar España tuvo mucho honor. Con Zapatero tiene verguenza.
Saludos de Barcelona
1. it's called sarcasm and an attempt to make you return to the subject of this blog issue.
2. do you really want to compare Obama with Zapatero? Calling the latter pathetic is being kind.
4. I'm beginning to think Malawi would make a better ally
5. we disagree. Also, you contadict yourself: for you US history begins on the 4th of July, as if a bunch of innate beings without values, ideals and concerns set out to create a new country that day, yet in 4. above the US is really descended from Spain. Heaven forbid!
6. in a previous mail: "About the war against Napoleon we were the first army that defeated the invincible(then ) french army" You weren't referring to Bailen, to what then? So, Wellington and his Anglo-Portugues e army were really the enemy together with the French. I can now add crass historical ingratitude to your list of attributes.
Yes, I believe what I have read about the Spanish treatment of US servicemen at QEN.
7. Yes Blas, My Lai existed, but you have to relate to a small and punished massacre as comparison to the 200,000 or so murdered prisoners in your civil war.
You're a great Wikipedia scholar, but should try other sources. Your defence of the Blue Division and attempt to make us believe the Nazis were frightened of you is contemptible. Do you have a blue shirt in your closet, how often do you face the sun with your arm in the air?
8. As said, start learning mandarin and forget about democracy. However, seeing the rest of your message, you evidence fascist views, so democracy is not something you'll miss.
So I'm funny, I wish I could say something positive about what I have read of yours. This episode in QEN is also now part of history and once again your country's image has been sullied by the perfidious Anglo-Saxons. Get a life. Bye
There will be suspicion that what we are now witnessing is a politically-mot ivated whitewash aimed at smoothing feathers within the Coalition and it should be interesting to read Michael's blog over the next few weeks on this subject. Nevertheless, I now feel two things are warranted:
1. someone in the US army has made a mistake in either exaggerating incidents or providing a whitewash for them and should be accountable for this. Let's hope we actually find out which of the two it is.
2. in the meantime, I for one feel the necessity to apologize for my criticism of those specific and now questionable actions. It goes to show that a journalist has to double-check sources. Unfortunately, much of what has been written here, by myself included, evidences discrepancies between "allies" that go far beyond this incident and those won't go away anytime soon.
I ask again Mr Yon if he confirms or not the alleged rude treatment by the spaniards. If you do not want to answer here, send me an email. I do not belive it. If it is true I´ll start sending mails to whoever in Spain to try to change it, but, honestly, I do not believe it.
-break-
As unfortunate as the situaiton is, and I'm sure there are other in the AOR just as bad, it is exactly these types of situations in which the US miitary men and women thrive and excel. They'll figure out a way to get it done or work around it. Adapt and overcome is the mantra. It's what we do best. Hoo-aah!
The Spanish soldiers are no responsable of their chain of command or the government decisions as happens today in Afghanistan or few years ago in Iraq.
We have more restrictive ROES and Cavetas and all the operational decisions involving the deliberate use of force are ordered directly from madrid.
I am in the infantry and me and my soldiers are doing their best.
US Army
Special Forces Retired.
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