Michael's Dispatches

Marine Urination Video: Some Thoughts

37 Comments

18 January 2012

The bad judgment exercised by a handful of Marines should be treated like an ND: a Negligent Discharge.  In the US military, if you “accidentally” pull the trigger and launch an unplanned bullet downrange, you should not even bother trying to explain away the “accident.”  If that bullet kills someone, it’s called Negligent Homicide.  The bullet did not fire accidentally; it was fired negligently.  Bottom line.

This should be treated like a negligent discharge of the penis, and of the video camera, and then of common sense.  What a dumb thing to do.   And super dumb to video tape it.  And ultra-dumb to then let the video make it to the Internet.

Those few Marines should be busted, but they don’t deserve prison.  They made a big-league mess up, but they did not commit murder.  They were young men in combat who committed stupid.  But how many of us who have reached the age of 30 cannot look back and find at least a dozen instances of major league stupidity that we committed?  Most of us are lucky that our dumbness did not make it to the Internet.

And that commander…   Sheesh.  He should be busted for all the distraction this has brought.

Punish them, but do not tar them.  Do not send them to prison.

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  • This commment is unpublished.
    Paul · 6 years ago
    It's a little screwy - you can pump them full of lead & they are dead, and a bloody mess, but peeing on them is desecration?
    • This commment is unpublished.
      The Proud Infidel · 6 years ago
      [quote name="Paul"]It's a little screwy - you can pump them full of lead & they are dead, and a bloody mess, but peeing on them is desecration?[/quote]
      It's not like they used hollow points with bacon bits in the tips! :lol:
  • This commment is unpublished.
    Darius · 6 years ago
    couldn't agree with you more

    I don't see how the Afghans are disgusted by this when their behaviour has been shown to be equally bad, if not worse.
    • This commment is unpublished.
      IronV · 6 years ago
      It's not a rational argument. The Afghans tolerate inhuman atrocities committed by their own but are aggregiously offended by infractions committed by Americans. That's just the way it is...
      • This commment is unpublished.
        Eli32 · 6 years ago
        Agreed.... But plenty of precedent for this, and plenty of reason to say we should be better. Example: When abolitionists visited Africa in the 1850s to drum up support for a petition outlawng all slavery, they found that the locals 'agreed' that it was inhumane to be subject to slavery --- but they had no problem enslaving members of another tribe. Their morals were not the same as the Westerners --- they just didn't want their own tribesman to be subject to slavery, but had no moral revulsion to the concept. NONETHELESS, the Western revulsion to slavery and efforts to end it are something that we SHOULD be proud of. Similarly, agreed that many of the more primitive Afghans have no true MORAL outrage with atrocities --- they just don't want to be on the recieving end. Nonetheless, Western morals would say that this treatment of the dead is repulsive.
        • This commment is unpublished.
          Eli32 · 6 years ago
          By the way, the idea of not mistreating a corpse is in the Old Testament (Deuteronomy), where judges are commanded to not allow an executed man to remain hanging through the night. The Western concpt of human dignity (which started in teh Bible) allows that sometimes taking of a life is in fact necessary, but that even in death the person deserves dignity.....

          Having said all that, war is dehumanizing. It appears that the soldiers involved don't meet the highest standards of according dignity to the dead, but who knows how seeing all that carnage would have affected any of us???
          • This commment is unpublished.
            Patriot Warrior · 6 years ago
            [quote name="Eli32"]The Western concpt of human dignity (which started in teh Bible) allows that sometimes taking of a life is in fact necessary, but that even in death the person deserves dignity...[/quote]"But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

            "Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!"
            [Matthew 18:6-7]
    • This commment is unpublished.
      Title of Liberty · 6 years ago
      [quote name="Darius"]couldn't agree with you more

      I don't see how the Afghans are disgusted by this when their behaviour has been shown to be equally bad, if not worse.[/quote]

      Equally bad? I fail to see how this equates to anything they do over there. Beheadings, stoning, acid attacks, killing little girls because they wanted an education? Peeing on someone? How is that equal? I'm sorry, but this is nothing like it, it is a stupid mistake committed by young men. Period. Do not equate our marines to Koranderthals!!!
  • This commment is unpublished.
    Kurt Olney · 6 years ago
    The enemy cuts off the heads of infidels in front of cameras and desecrates and burns and hangs bodies of the infidel. And they celebrate. The enemy does not wear wear uniforms.

    The big question is why is the behavior of the Marines going to piss our enemy off any more than our enemy is already pissed off at us? And our Islamist enemies believe all infidels should die?

    We won WWII by bombing the hell out of Germans and the Japanese.

    Our enemy is laughing at us about our rules of engagement.

    And where is C.A.I.R. when Islamist behead and mutilate etc. etc. etc. No objections from them!!
  • This commment is unpublished.
    Kelly · 6 years ago
    Put a letter in their records and then split them up through out the Corps.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    The Proud Infidel · 6 years ago
    When a Marine tells you he is going to piss on your grave, you'd better believe he means it!
  • This commment is unpublished.
    Valerie · 6 years ago
    The person with the camera should have been separated from it, and the incident forgotten. It may have been bad manners, but this is a war......
  • This commment is unpublished.
    dsp · 6 years ago
    What these Marines needed (and lacked) was a squad-leader or Platoon Sergeant that knows the meaning of "What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas." This is a training failure; nothing more.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    pacific_waters · 6 years ago
    "Those few Marines should be busted," Oh contraire. They should receive promotions. We need to stop pussyfooting around and fight a war like a war needs to be fought, all out. Why should we show respect for an enemy that shows none? And please, don't fall back on the garbage excuse that we don't to become our enemy. Pissing on a corpse is not in the same league as the violations the taliban inflict. War is hell and he sooner we admit and stop trying to make it less so the sooner we will be able to prosecute a war when it's necessary and actually WIN the damn thing.
    • This commment is unpublished.
      IronV · 6 years ago
      I understand the emotion and the sentiment. But with all respect, you're dead wrong on every count. If we become them, we lose. Big time. And in far more ways than one...
      • This commment is unpublished.
        Sean S · 6 years ago
        While I agree with this statement maintaining a moral high-ground does not mean we should forget that these are Americans who made a mistake, not the enemy. ROE & the Geneva Convention while noble, go beyond just protecting civilians and remaining ethical, they often cause harm to our soldiers and the media should not blow these occurrences out of proportion. Things happen in war and while they may not be acceptable we have to understand what drives these situations and act accordingly.
    • This commment is unpublished.
      ironargonaut · 6 years ago
      They broke the law. Why is it so freakin hard for people to understand this? It a law. Written down, communicated. Well known.
      If this had been a mortician peeing on an american soldiers corpse would people be so non-chalant?
      For every law there is a penalty prescibed by law. Apply that penalty nothing more nothing less.

      When a general had a negligent discharge, I remember a certain reporter jumping all over his sh*t. There were other reasons also.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    Rob Hise-Denk · 6 years ago
    The fact that this happened is a problem with their command. I think that the best solution is one I've seen used in a variety of ways...if you screw something up, you become responsible for educating your buddies and making sure it doesn't happen again. If you get a DUI, you should get a metric crapton of extra CQ duty and part of that duty should be shuttling drunk people home.
    If you piss on your enemy, you should be required to do something that develops your sense of being a civilized warrior rather than being a savage. Any which way, I agree that these are just stupid-ass kids and prison isn't justified.
    • This commment is unpublished.
      ChuckB · 6 years ago
      Totally agree. Knock then down a rank. Take some money (in installments) Non judicial punishment.. Have them painting rocks for a month.. Whatever.

      Jail? You've got to be kidding.. I don't know about you all, but I sure as hell not want to answer to all the stupid stuff I did at that age. (and in the Army...)

      Jail is out of the question. It would ruin their lives and they simply do not in any way shape or form deserve that.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    xoxoxoBruce · 6 years ago
    The whole culture of the military, of the war, is you're not fighting people. you are fighting enemy combatants, Huns, Nazis, japs, Gooks, Slopes, etc, but never people. And they don't suddenly become people when they're dead. It's hard to remember that, sitting in your easy chair seeing this on TV.
    • This commment is unpublished.
      mjgeib · 6 years ago
      I've seen our military individuals treating dead enemy combatants with respect as well, as was demonstrated by a blogs posted by Michael Yon. In a recent blog, Michael stated that the soldiers were telling the Afghanistan soldiers to stop mistreating the bodies. Even when in war situations, it is a good thing to remember the golden rule. Even if the other side does not adhere to the same rules as us, it only helps to support their propaganda machine if these activities come to light.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    Mr. Richard · 6 years ago
    Sorry Gents,

    The "after-combat" actions viewed were nothing more than young soilders being "relieved" that they were not dead like their enemy who had tried to kill them over the length of said battle. WHAT!!??? War is not a most vile/needed act? Then you soft-skinned hallow civilians should look away and not bother yourself with comment on deeds that YOU pay your military to do. THEY are the ones that must step up to the task at hand, not you. So what they do is not for your comment OR JUDGEMENT!
    THEY are this country's sheepdogs. THEY are the "rough men with guns on the wall" so we might sleep in comfort in our beds at night. How dare we even comment. How dare we even attempt to defile. This is WAR! Now STEP BACK!!!
    • This commment is unpublished.
      ironargonaut · 6 years ago
      Your right THEY should be able to come home and rape our daughters how dare we JUDGE them if they do SO. We who are know civilians should BOW down to them.
      Asking a soldier to follow the USCMJ is not to ask.
      • This commment is unpublished.
        ironargonaut · 6 years ago
        damn my english is bad,
        Should be "We who are now". "to follow the UCMJ is not to much to ask." I noticed my sarcasm tag got lost.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    Warren · 6 years ago
    As a former Marine I am disgusted by these actions. If reflects negatively on the Corps and the US. I agree with Mr. Yon in that these men (I hate to even call them Marines) should be driven out of the service or at the very least busted down in rank.

    Comments in this thread and others talk about what the Taliban or Iraqis do to our people. If our fighting men and women are considered equals then yes that they have done is not so bad. I happen to hold them and our military in higher regard. Shame on you that do not expect more from our troops.

    Our troops are held to a higher standard and they should be.

    Semper Fi
    • This commment is unpublished.
      IronV · 6 years ago
      Dead spot on. Salute!!!!!!!!!!!!
    • This commment is unpublished.
      Tiger1 · 6 years ago
      Our Military Personnel are the best in the world, because we as Americans require that they be the best. That includes instilling discipline in our soldiers. These soldiers showed a lack of discipline, period.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    Richardg · 6 years ago
    I agree with both Mr. Richard and Warren.

    My only additional comment is that their timing was off. Should have first pissed on them, then beat them with a shoe, and THEN ...
  • This commment is unpublished.
    dsp · 6 years ago
    I'm a former Marine. I've never been shot at.

    I'm inclined to give the benefit of the doubt to folks that have bullets whizzing over their heads on a regular basis. I suspect there's something unique about being in fear for your life.

    Honestly, I've see worse from college kids.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    Mary · 6 years ago
    Under Sharia law, which enforces Islamic principles, non-Muslims who do not show respect for Muslims have committed crimes and the whole non-Muslim community can be "punished." Our military needs to enforce its own reasonable U.S. military discipline and NOT be bullied into enforcing Sharia law on the troops. The Commander-in-Chief of our military (Obama) needs to STOP enforcing Sharia law and start living up to his oath of office wherein he swore to uphold the U.S. Constitution.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    John-Capt in ANG · 6 years ago
    Seems it is an opportunity to rap their leadership on the knuckles, give the junior enlisted a LOC (Letter of Counseling) and move on. No one condones it, but also, it is Marines being Marines. When you see death everyday, I've noticed their "sense of humor" changes. I'm sure it's the same in LAPD's murder section or the LA Morgue. They just went a little too far and were dumb enough to YouTube the video.

    This is why when people say, "I'd love to be in high school nowadays," I respond, "You've crazy." Half of what we did is now treated nearly like a felony and with the Internet, it would haunt you the rest of your life.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    Barry Sheridan · 6 years ago
    This is just another example of the western media's double standards. A case of poor judgement by a handful is laid bare and universally condemned. Yet rarely do we hear about the routine persecution of Christians, or the constant use of the pejorative,'infidels' to anyone who is not a Moslem in anyway other than just an incidental manner. As for exposing the everyday murders committed by Islamic extemists for their perverted reasons, well we would not want our media friends to do that would we, that's a nothing compared to urinating on the dead, the ultimate in criminality!!!! How I loathe the upside down world of modern journalists.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    Jesse · 6 years ago
    Their only crime was they got caught. This calls for an article 15 nothing more. You'll notice that the "outrage" has faded from the front page.

    The Taliban were laughing their asses off at the stupid Americans wasting so much energy over this when they were planning where to put the next IED to blow the legs, arms and genitals off the next Chazry Clark. If I was their Gunny I'd knock them up side the head in front of the CO and buy'm a beer at the club after hours.

    Don't mean nuthin' as we used to say in the Nam.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    Nils · 6 years ago
    Since they seem to enjoy playing with excrements, they should be sent to clean latrines for a month or two, and that would be that. No need to turn this into an international drama.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    Tom McKeon · 6 years ago
    Firstly, they should have had better sense than to record it. But let us not forget the Taliban have NO rights under the Geneva Accords. They are a non flag entity that is to be killer.

    In Vietnam we use to leave the bodies on the wire for a day as a warning to their friends of what is waiting for them. They too were not in uniform and our government refused to admit we were fighting North Vietnamese after TET of 68. In Afghanistan we are fighting a war against Moslem fanatics not a flag nation, they have no rights.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    Jerry · 6 years ago
    You're right. Those Marines should be busted. General Patton should also have been busted for peeing into the Rhine when he reached it. That after all was an environmental catastrophe.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    Alexander · 6 years ago
    This is war. Today, they were stronger. Stress of war is removed in different ways.
    Judge to order someone shot and framed his comrades.
    This should not appear on the Internet is a discredited army
  • This commment is unpublished.
    Gary Roberts · 6 years ago
    As a Marine Corps Vietnam combat vet I can understand this happening. In war you get desentized, it's the only way you can survive. I must however say that I am truly heart broken at the dishonor this brings upon my Corps and my country. These young men commited and act of stupidity and now they will hae to live with that for the rest of their lives. There is no greater punishment for a Marine than to know he has dishonored his Corps and his Nation. God Bless our troops and bring them home safely. Semper Fi!!!!
  • This commment is unpublished.
    allium · 6 years ago
    Negligent discharge - No weapon goes off accidentally but through a careless disregard of basic safety rules. Yes - shit happens but still ...

    As for the young men, bully for them. Court marshal the moron working the camera. Just some places or things you don't take pictures of. But then again self censoring is long gone.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    Scott Puckett · 6 years ago
    I am shocked!!!! Young men, on the spur of the moment, doing something stupid.
    No college a age kid has ever done any thing stupid. From a generation brought up on the "Jackass" franchise. These young men, after the stress of combat, perhaps after having been desensitized by what they have witnessed, do something stupid in front of a camera. Wow!!! Let's put them in jail.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    D*mnyankee84 · 6 years ago
    The first mistake these Marines made was that they didn't wrap the body in the Stars & Stripes. While it would've aggravated every Soldier, Sailor, Airman, Marine, & Coast Guardsmen, the press would be SCREAMING to protect their first amendment right to protest.

    How is it OK to take a live but wounded "enemy combatant" to Gitmo for water-boarding but it isn't OK to "merely" empty your bladder on an enemy corpse?
  • This commment is unpublished.
    old av8tor · 6 years ago
    I agree with Allen West. If you ain't walked in that walk, you have no credibility or insight on this subject. And Yon is right on too. Countless numbers of us have done something as dumb as this. What we didn't do was make it worse by taking and posting it on the net.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    BravoBilly · 6 years ago
    Having a degree in Television Production, the first thing I start to wonder about is the staging of the entire incident; which, then happened to just find its way to the internet. I have taken a Course called Commercials: the Hidden Messages. That was quite a Hidden message. Then entire Chicago/Arkansas Political gang had to stick their noses into everything.

    I personally would take the whoever video recorded it and put it onto the internet and charge him with something. With him there, there never would never have been any international incident.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    BravoBilly · 6 years ago
    Without him there :zzz
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    Buck from Western WI · 6 years ago
    Marines givin' a "golden shower"to some dead he camera man should have his ass kicked.
    The Marines should be punished with 25 push ups.
    The incident can't be compare to beadings, rapes,torture done by the taliban.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    Charlie · 6 years ago
    Those were brave American boys. They won that deadly fight. Had most non-military Americans been there “engaged” they’d have pissed their pants and died. Had they survived, their bladders would not have needed relief. This is all political crap.

    I’ll bet the Taliban consider our Marines to be real Pissers [pisser: a factor causing trouble in achieving a positive result]. If those guys were the ones who won that fight, then I say give them a Medal.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    TALO · 6 years ago
    Sometimes being responsible means pissing people off OR ON THEM.
    what happens on a OP stays on the OP. MOVE ON.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    Sammie · 6 years ago
    And here I thought we were suppposed to be better than them
  • This commment is unpublished.
    DougM · 6 years ago
    America's not so dirty secret is that we fight our wars with 18-22 year olds. 18 year-old Americans do dumb things, that's their (our) birthright. What they did was dumb, filming it was dumb, and posting it on the Internet was dumb. It hurts the COIN fight, but it was a misdemeanor, not a felony. NJP them, and certainly make sure the chain of command didn't encourage them, but get over it.
  • This commment is unpublished.
    Patriot Warrior · 6 years ago
    A Thought Experiment: Recall, devout Muslim scholars have no qualms proudly declaring the salutary effects of drinking prophet urine.Sheik Ali Gomaa: Urine Fatwa

    According to Egypt’s Grand Mufti, Sheikh Ali Gomaa, drinking the urine of Muhammad is deemed a great blessing.

    [Remember, Muhammad never claimed that he himself was divine—so why does his piss have magic properties?]

    Source: “A Fatwa Free-for-All in the Islamic World”, New York Times, Michael Slackman Published: Monday, June 11, 2007 Meanwhile, our ACLU clergy insist that serial Gitmo semen/piss/feces cocktails are merely a case of "misunderstanding" Islam.

    So which is it? Blessing? Or mere misunderstanding?

    Why aren't our micturating Marines treated as mere “misunderstanders” of devout Muslim observance, too?
  • This commment is unpublished.
    Patriot Warrior · 6 years ago
    Our Marine micturators’ BIG mistake?

    Neglecting to apply for an NEA grant for performance art.

    ACLU clergy will never forgive that heresy. :P
  • This commment is unpublished.
    Jeff · 6 years ago
    Young men doing several supremely dumb things in the flush of combat. My question is why has the story now disappeared. Abu Ghraib went on and on and on and on. It was "Bushes military", if you remember. Has this story faded from view so it doesn't Obama's problem?

    I feel for the poor Company Commander. I'll bet he's had a few very, very bad days in the last two weeks.

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