Comments for Justice Department Releases Bush Administration Torture Memos at http://www.michaelyon-online.com , comment 1 to 29 out of 20 comments http://www.michaelyon-online.com Sat, 21 Nov 2009 03:18:57 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.michaelyon-online.com/justice-department-releases-bush-administration-torture-memos.htm#comment-18759 Which is why I lean toward the Israeli model. If the person you are torturing is known to have information of an imminent attack, go ahead but be prepared to defend yourself in court. News indicates some were tortured to try to prove a link between Al Qaeda and iraq to justify invading. I don't condone that as it is directed toward getting a confession vice real information. I prefer to keep discussions on point vice namecalling, if that is thinskinned, so be it. - Scott Dudley Thu, 23 Apr 2009 19:42:00 +0100 http://www.michaelyon-online.com/justice-department-releases-bush-administration-torture-memos.htm#comment-18758 Carol you are dead on. Bravo. senorlechero, fantastic.. I try not visit this site to often becasue it smells of liberal agenda ever since the new president came on board. Well I'm not sure if he is "on board" or working with the enemy (i say that in jest, knowing what damage he is doing to us). It does appear Scott that you have very thin skin. We have cahtted on a different thread and you always seem to get offended easily. You may be a very smart person, but your pompous and pious tone really gives you less credibility. The wiki "site" was pretty humourous and agree that no professor worth his salt would allow you to use wiki as a source. All that being said, I doubt the MMS well ever tell us, nor the government release information that waterboarding or sleep deprivations or wearing panties on prisoners heads works or doesn't. But I would venture to say that if you walked into VA hospital and asked some of our bravest and posed the the following question they would have said "Hell Yes!" "If you thought there was a remote possibility that torturing a suspect could have saved you from being here would you condone it?" Chances are Scott you would as well, maybe you would say "Hell yes" if was your son, daughter, grandchild, niece, nephew. You see I make no exceptions. I say torture them all if all I have to do is make them feel like they are drowning to get information to save lives. To the liberals, your going down in 2010. - BlueJammy Thu, 23 Apr 2009 17:22:00 +0100 http://www.michaelyon-online.com/justice-department-releases-bush-administration-torture-memos.htm#comment-18747 I rest my case. - Scott Dudley Wed, 22 Apr 2009 20:29:00 +0100 http://www.michaelyon-online.com/justice-department-releases-bush-administration-torture-memos.htm#comment-18746 Mr Dudley. If you think being told you are "ignorant" is a "personal alltack" you are even more ignorant than you have already displayed. You on the other hand use personal insults when you are proven cannot argue from facts. You are not fooling anyone here. Saying there are "tons" of whoevers that do whatever is typical of the type of argument you "weak minded" liberals make. First of all "tons" is a unit of weight. Did you mean "many"? How many? Who are they? All the evidence points to the vast majority of interogators believing these techniques worked in this case. You are worse than ignorant if you continue to deny this fact. Your agreement with the "israeli model" is a joke. The israelis regularly assasinate their enemies. They also make terrorists disappear to who knows where. So every terrorist taken into custody by the israelis knows that if they don't give intel they may well be let go then blown to bits, or worse, placed in some unknows location with the world famous israeli interrogators.....that "don't exist". - senorlechero Wed, 22 Apr 2009 19:56:00 +0100 http://www.michaelyon-online.com/justice-department-releases-bush-administration-torture-memos.htm#comment-18744 Thanks for the link, Cecil. What Adm. Blair said was.... ƒ??The information gained from these techniques was valuable in some instances, but there is no way of knowing whether the same information could have been obtained through other means,ƒ? Admiral Blair said in a written statement issued last night. ƒ??The bottom line is these techniques have hurt our image around the world, the damage they have done to our interests far outweighed whatever benefit they gave us and they are not essential to our national security." - Scott Dudley Wed, 22 Apr 2009 13:34:00 +0100 http://www.michaelyon-online.com/justice-department-releases-bush-administration-torture-memos.htm#comment-18743 snortachero, Your personal attacks indicate a weak mind. There are tons of current and former military (and CIA) that disavow "enhanced techniques" as a productive or acceptable method of obtaining information. KSM was waterboarded 183 times in one month. How is that effective? At some point, maybe after 125 times, doesn't it seem a waste of time? Would not another approach be considered? I lean toward the Israeli model. Their policy is that torture is illegal. On the other hand, if it is used, those doing it must prove, in a court of law, that it was absolutely necessary, given the dictates of the situation. It is an extremely troubling subject that should transcend rhetoric. What values do we stand for as America? Carol, I agree. sl - Scott Dudley Wed, 22 Apr 2009 13:00:00 +0100 http://www.michaelyon-online.com/justice-department-releases-bush-administration-torture-memos.htm#comment-18742 ƒ??High value information came from interrogations in which those methods were used and provided a deeper understanding of the al Qaƒ??ida organization that was attacking this country,ƒ? Adm. Dennis C. Blair, the intelligence director, wrote in a memo to his staff last Thursday. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/22/us/politics/22blair.html?_r=1&hp Now, can we dispense with the claims that enhanced interrogation techniques never work? - Cecil Trotter Wed, 22 Apr 2009 02:08:00 +0100 http://www.michaelyon-online.com/justice-department-releases-bush-administration-torture-memos.htm#comment-18741 Mr. Dudley, I just noticed on one of your posts you added "CDR USN (ret)" after your name. Just because you're retired military doesn't make you right. There are enough retired military who disagree with you. Time will tell how much Obama is weakening our country and emboldening our enemies. 9/11 changed me forever. If the Bush administration thwarted just one additional terror attack, thank you to President Bush, Dick Cheney and every single brave man and woman who has sacrified to protect me, a proud American living in the greatest country in the world, for the past eight years. Under Obama, I fear what is about to happen to our country. Watching him mishandle the recent pirate situation off the coast of Somali concerns me deeply. I'll eat my words if Obama turns out to be the best president ever. I hope you'll eat yours. Oh, wait, I forgot. It's Bush's fault that there are terrorists today, not the Islamic ideology that has killed so many innocents all over the world. - Carol Wed, 22 Apr 2009 01:53:00 +0100 http://www.michaelyon-online.com/justice-department-releases-bush-administration-torture-memos.htm#comment-18740 For those who arn't as ignorant as dudley........ http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=46949 ƒ??The ƒ??waterboard,ƒ?? which is the most intense of the CIA interrogation techniques, is subject to additional limits,ƒ? explained the May 30, 2005 Justice Department memo. ƒ??It may be used on a High Value Detainee only if the CIA has ƒ??credible intelligence that a terrorist attack is imminentƒ??; ƒ??substantial and credible indicators that the subject has actionable intelligence that can prevent, disrupt or deny this attackƒ??; and ƒ??[o]ther interrogation methods have failed to elicit this information within the perceived time limit for preventing the attack.ƒ??ƒ? ƒ??In particular, the CIA believes that it would have been unable to obtain critical information from numerous detainees, including KSM and Abu Zubaydah, without these enhanced techniques,ƒ? says the Justice Department memo. ƒ??Both KSM and Zubaydah had ƒ??expressed their belief that the general US population was ƒ??weak,ƒ?? lacked resilience, and would be unable to ƒ??do what was necessaryƒ?? to prevent the terrorists from succeeding in their goals.ƒ?? Indeed After he was subjected to the ƒ??waterboardƒ? technique, KSM became cooperative, providing intelligence that led to the capture of key al Qaeda allies and, eventually, the closing down of an East Asian terrorist cell that had been tasked with carrying out the 9/11-style attack on Los Angeles. NO FURTHER DISCUSSION IS NECESSARY. If anyone reads this and still says waterboarding is "torture" and doesn't work they are worse than ignorant, they are fools. - senorlechero Tue, 21 Apr 2009 21:39:00 +0100 http://www.michaelyon-online.com/justice-department-releases-bush-administration-torture-memos.htm#comment-18739 Well scott dudley, you pretty much just proved the point that waterboarding is NOT torture. Since only 3, of the thousands captured, terrorists were waterboarded, and they survived and have no lasting damage....just like the 5 guys in your SERE class. The guy sitting here next to me says only 4 or 5 of the guys in his SERE class were waterboarded (that he knows of), and that's out of 30 guys. So if we can waterboard 15% or more of our own pilots and special operators and it's NOT torture, how can you say waterboarding .01% of enemy combatants is torture? Also, in one of your previous posts you made the most ignorant comment in this thread. You said waterboarding never works (or something to that effect) and that there is no evidence we ever got any "actionalble" intel from it. That is so wrong. You must have your head burried in the dailykos if you have not heard of the intel gathered from the 3 waterboarded terrorists. Just yesterday former Vice President Cheney said he has personally seen memos describing the evidence gathered from the harsh interogations of those head lopping off less than human creeps. No you may not believe Cheney, just like some don't believe the ice in the Antarctic is growing...but that just makes you ignorant, which of course most of us already knew. - senorlechero Tue, 21 Apr 2009 21:01:00 +0100 http://www.michaelyon-online.com/justice-department-releases-bush-administration-torture-memos.htm#comment-18738 In my SERE class of about 50, only 5 of us were waterboarded. John McCain thinks it is torture and opposes it but then who is he? - Scott Dudley Tue, 21 Apr 2009 18:51:00 +0100 http://www.michaelyon-online.com/justice-department-releases-bush-administration-torture-memos.htm#comment-18736 Someone must have emailed FNC because they picked up on the fact that thousands of aircrew and SOF personnel have been waterboarded through the years and if it's not torture for them, why would it be for someone who doesn't even deserve rights under the Geneva Conventions. Whether they're volunteers or not, it's a legitimate question. They don't volunteer for waterboarding anyway, that is done after they are "captured" during the training. - Bill R. Tue, 21 Apr 2009 17:39:00 +0100 http://www.michaelyon-online.com/justice-department-releases-bush-administration-torture-memos.htm#comment-18735 Darn, and I thought the subject was release of torture memos. My bad. - Scott Dudley Tue, 21 Apr 2009 15:17:00 +0100 http://www.michaelyon-online.com/justice-department-releases-bush-administration-torture-memos.htm#comment-18732 And where does he get the authority to dictate what this discussion is about? There is less in Yon's post about "torture" than there is about the questionable legal minds at the ACLU. In fact, there is nothing in the post about "torture".....zero. So dudley, what gives? Are you Mr. Yon's web site superviser or what? - senorlechero Tue, 21 Apr 2009 04:08:00 +0100 http://www.michaelyon-online.com/justice-department-releases-bush-administration-torture-memos.htm#comment-18728 No, I'm not all talk, just been busy and this isn't really important. Webster's defines it as the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure. Don't see how what our agents did qualifies as torture. Waterboarding, which is what everyone seems to be up in arms about is scary in that your mind perceives that you are drowning. That isn't pain, just fright. What does the Geneva Convention say is permissible for combatants caught out of a legitimate uniform? Can't they be shot as spies or something? - Bill R Mon, 20 Apr 2009 18:11:00 +0100 http://www.michaelyon-online.com/justice-department-releases-bush-administration-torture-memos.htm#comment-18726 The Left wing looney tunes ACLU has got the credibility of a five year old on LSD. - OldSoldier54 Mon, 20 Apr 2009 12:40:00 +0100 http://www.michaelyon-online.com/justice-department-releases-bush-administration-torture-memos.htm#comment-18725 There are, undoubtedly, tons of sites where everyone can bash the ACLU. Subject here is torture. Not surprised Bill R. has not provided a reliable definition of Torture. Seems he is all talk. - Scott Dudley Mon, 20 Apr 2009 12:39:00 +0100 http://www.michaelyon-online.com/justice-department-releases-bush-administration-torture-memos.htm#comment-18715 Forget for a moment Bush and the interogators, and think about the ACLUs statement toward the "lawyers who justified" supposed torture. If Lawyers could be held responsible to wrong assesments and interpretations of the law most.....no, ALL, Lawyers would be in jail. The ACLU regularly puts forth opinions on the legality of acts like murder, rape, child molestation, and every other vile act commited by the worst criminals in the world. Their wrong opinions are responsible for many such murderers and child molesters being given tiny sentences then committing the same crimes upon release. And what about our current Attorney General whos lame legal advise to Clinton led to the release of criminals and terrorists? Where is the ACLU outcry? It's non existant because they believe criminals and terrorists are a good thing.........if they were all in jail they couldn't hire the ACLU lawyers. These ACLU morons would have us all bowing to murderous thugs if they had their way. After we prosecute them I might consider prosecuting Bush Administration attorneys...........well, no, actually I wouldn't - senorlechero Mon, 20 Apr 2009 03:14:00 +0100 http://www.michaelyon-online.com/justice-department-releases-bush-administration-torture-memos.htm#comment-18710 I take it you have a reliable definition of torture. Please provide it along with the source. I am always willing to learn. - Scott Dudley, CDR, USN (ret) Sun, 19 Apr 2009 20:19:00 +0100 http://www.michaelyon-online.com/justice-department-releases-bush-administration-torture-memos.htm#comment-18709 Do you know what would happen if someone were to write a paper citing Wikipedia as a source? They would get a failing grade. Wikipedia is a useless waste of cyberspace. - Bill R. Sun, 19 Apr 2009 16:25:00 +0100