Helicopter versus RPG

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The enemy weapons causing the most deaths in Afghanistan are simple.  There are the machine guns, and the AK-47s, and many thousands of improvised bombs planted in the earth, and suicide bombs, and the RPG: Rocket Propelled Grenade.

There are a few other kinds of weapons, but in a nutshell, that is about it.   Meanwhile, it is probably not risking much overstatement to say that ISAF employs a thousand sort of weapons.

In the image above, the shooter has already pulled the trigger.  There was a very quick delay, with a quiet pop.  Some smoke puffed out from the front and from the rear of the RPG launcher.

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I made the images in this dispatch in Urozgan Province.   A few American civilians along with a bunch of Afghans were out working.  On the way back, they stopped to fire their AKs and the RPG for fun.

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We stood far back due to the back blast, which can be lethal.  The back blast is the hot air that is expelled from the rear of the tube when launching a grenade.  The gunner seemed to aim at the top of the hill.

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The RPG is so simple that a kid—or an illiterate tribesman—can learn how to use it in just a few minutes.  The Mujahidin shot down Soviet helicopters with these things, and of course the same has happened to us in Afghanistan, Somalia, Vietnam, and elsewhere.

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If the shooter fires straight up at a helicopter, the back blast can kill the shooter.  Afghans made special tubes that allow them to shoot straight up, but he is not using that tube in these photographs.

In combat, I stay away from the RPG gunners.  They get excited and it is easy for them to turn quickly and blast your face off.   At night it can be worse when you cannot see where they are, and Afghans have a way of not looking back and checking their back blast area.  They often just shoot the rocket.  They do the same with cars.  They will shift into reverse and hit the gas without checking the mirror.  (I got hit like this in Afghanistan.)

A US Soldier told me that he got knocked down by an RPG back blast last year.

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Tourists in Cambodia can fire an RPG at a commercial shooting range, and for a price, the proprietors will let you shoot a water buffalo.  No thanks.

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This phase of the launch will be visible for miles at nighttime if you are wearing night vision gear.

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Movie scenes featuring RPGs often make them appear to fly slowly with a plume of trailing flame and smoke.  The reality is faster: squeeze trigger and BOOM!  The grenade goes fast, and it is very loud.  There is no Whoooshh…just BOOM!  And usually it is BOOM and BOOM as it hits the target, but I have seen rounds that just bounced off:  BOOM!  Klank!

There are different sorts of ammunition.  All are subsonic with the fastest at about 900 feet per second.  If the shooter is close, there is not going to be time for a Rambo jump.  If the shooter is on target, the victim on the receiving end will not have time to move.

Comments   

 
# RE: Helicopter versus RPGAndrew 2012-05-10 16:35
Michael,

In the movie, "Act of Valor," A seal gets hit with an RPG but its a dud and he gets knocked down, but not out. Is this actually possible?
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+2 # RE: RE: Helicopter versus RPGBenjamin Welsheimer 2012-05-10 20:14
Quoting Andrew:
Michael,

In the movie, "Act of Valor," A seal gets hit with an RPG but its a dud and he gets knocked down, but not out. Is this actually possible?

Yes is it. I have seen it in Iraq. They had removed the fuse and it did not go off. It still can and does cause a lot of damage depending on the angle of the hit, but depending on where you get hit you can get right back up.
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+2 # RE: Helicopter versus RPGC Good 2012-05-10 20:18
Fascinating article. Thank you for posting. It was very interesting to read.
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-6 # RE: Helicopter versus RPGrobin yates 2012-05-11 11:38
it amazes me how little brown skinned men using old weapons sustain firefights with the ultra well equipped USA forces and appear to be still effective after 10 years. Ah, I understand, they are fighting for their country!
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+3 # RE: RE: Helicopter versus RPGironargonaut 2012-05-11 15:39
Quoting robin yates:
it amazes me how little brown skinned men using old weapons sustain firefights with the ultra well equipped USA forces and appear to be still effective after 10 years. Ah, I understand, they are fighting for their country!

Define "effective". If you were to measure effective by casualities inflicted, ISAF vs. Taliban. Not very effective. If you define it as ability to take and hold ground. NO. If you define it as causing enough mayhem to sap ISAF resolve, because we don't have enough troops to stop the annoying mayhem. Then yes it could be called effective. If you want to see a repeat of history, find the interview with a North Vietnamese officer who said they new they could not win militarily, but they knew if they held out long enough. The defeatist and antiwar crowd in the USA would win it for them.
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# 3 Tour Viet. VetSpook 2012-05-15 22:21
It is not so much the weapons as it is the tactics. It is difficult to ID the enemy when they look just like the civilians. You have to wait for them to attack. Once they do they hide their weapon. In Vietnam it was common for the RPG gunner to have no other weapon and just drop the tube at his firing postion and run like hell.
Spook
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-2 # rpgJonny 2012-05-11 11:46
Isnt it pretty difficult to hit a heli with a rpg? They arent guided, so I would think unless youre right next to it, youre going to miss.
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# RE: Helicopter versus RPGDustoff848 2012-05-11 13:26
It's all about statistics. They've got a zillion of those things and if you shoot at enough helo's...sooner or later you are gonna get lucky. 'Even a blind squirrel sometimes finds a nut'.
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+3 # RE: Helicopter versus RPGHeywood Jablomi 2012-05-11 14:10
You just have to lead correctly and have a little bit of luck to nail a low-flying helicopter with an RPG. I would not want to do it if the helicopter had door gunners, particularly if the gunners had gatling guns. But this is what the MEDEVAC controversy is all about: helicopters with the means to defend themselves, regardless of circumstances. I know that if I were in a MEDEVAC bird, that I would want gunners and machine guns.

I would love to read an interview with some Kiowa Warrior pilots, especially if they were women.

I love it when our infidel women warriors kill hadji bad guys, whether they are piloting fast movers, Spectre gunships, or Apaches.
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# RE: Helicopter versus RPGkaren 2012-05-11 16:51
GOD bLeSS U+ 8)
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# RE: Helicopter versus RPGPete Sheppard 2012-05-11 17:25
They wait until the helo is either flaring to land or just lifting off when the helo is slow and can't maneuver. Then they will try to launch volleys of rockets.
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# RE: Helicopter versus RPGPete Sheppard 2012-05-11 17:35
I hope this is OK, but this video from Mythbusters via Youtube shows the RPG at normal speed, with slo-mo at the end of the segment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5elJNyLVEQ
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# RE: RE: Helicopter versus RPGC Tyler 2012-05-11 21:11
I liked this. 2:45 has a good angle showing how short the time is between rocket fire and explosion. The 2nd angle high-speed video that is linked in this video shows the warhead explosion shooting out the other side of the trailer so fast it looks instantaneous to even the high speed camera!
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# RE: Helicopter versus RPGKurt Olney 2012-05-12 00:41
Enemy with RPG. Are the predators not picking these guys up? In order to get a shot at the helicopter, they have to hear it coming? In Vietnam, the uber quiet Army-Lockheed YO-3A worked with Cobras with Infant capability as a hunter killer team. The helicopter would be standoff from the YO-3A as it located its target. Do not understand where DOD is on this. The YO-3A is in audible at 1500 feet and visually virtually undetectable. www.yo-3a.com
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-1 # FriendDrew 2012-05-13 20:27
"blast your face off"

Mike, I know how serious war is, but that gave me a chuckle.

Keep it up and your powder (er ...camera) dry. (10th SFG)

Pencil Neck
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# Apachenellie 2012-05-15 13:49
Obviously if you can get an AH overhead whilst lighter armed helos do their stuff you won't get many locals standing around in the open firing RPGs - but supply & demand usually means this is not feasible. In the meantime arm everyone, including Dustoffs......
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